Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 23 Posted (2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 629 times:
Germany's Walter Steinmeier has been elected by a party convention as the socialist party's candidate for the nex Chancellery elections.He serves currently as Germany's foreign secretary in a large left-right coalition,headed by Angela Merkel.Throughout the last months frictions have put a strain on the coalition.
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 23 Reply 3, posted (2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 585 times:
I'm not particularly a supporter of the German Social Democrats- and most definitely not of a produce called Ypsilanti- but Steinmeier to me looks quite balanced,a great foreign-politician not bending under pressure (which is rare..)...
To me his political home (SPD) is obviously the wrong address,since if I analyse intellectual Neanderthalers like Beck, I wonder what both men could do within the same political family..
( Beck to me is the prototype of a provincial political a.hole who has no clue whatsoever on the real issues of our planet..)
I'm not saying Angela Merkel is a bad chancellor -she indisputably has grown in the job- but I do not neccessarily share her views on foreign politics.( since I don''t live in Germany that's a key differenciator -obviously..) I share her views though on the project to lengthen the life-span of the German nuclear reactors,since I don't see a short term solution to replacing them without major environmental impact ( provided we manage to sort out the Assen disaster for storage of nuclear waste..)
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 579 times:
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3): To me his political home (SPD) is obviously the wrong address,since if I analyse intellectual Neanderthalers like Beck, I wonder what both men could do within the same political family..
It's precisely the right party for him! Beck is at the wrong address, and, if you've seen the news already, not for any longer.
The SPD is traditionally the party for thinkers and intellectuals, who sometimes lose touch with the man on the street, while CDU and CSU are dominated by "doers" - sentiment-driven, instinct politicians well aware of what the common guy thinks. Beck, by his style and appearance, is much more a CDU politician than a traditional SPD man.
Steinmeier is a great choice. He's a brilliant analyst, has perfect rhetorics, he's knowledgeable and of good integrity. He'll be my candidate in the upcoming election.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 12519 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 572 times:
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 1): We have no "socialist party's candidate". Steinmeier is a social democrat, not a socialist.
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This is a bit of hair-splitting. Many "Socialists" are farther to the centre than many "Social-Democrats". So that the terms can mis-lead about actual positions of parties or individual politicians.
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3): intellectual Neanderthalers like Beck
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Isn't this a bit exaggerated ? Mr Beck in spite of having the name of a good beer does not look like being the way forward to go, but I would not dismiss him in that way. More interesting is to see what exactly Mr Müntefering now is to do in the future. Push Mr Beck over into the "Linkspartei" ?
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 9489 posts, RR: 62 Reply 6, posted (2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 561 times:
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3): To me his political home (SPD) is obviously the wrong address,since if I analyse intellectual Neanderthalers like Beck, I wonder what both men could do within the same political family..
Quoting Rara (Reply 4): Beck, by his style and appearance, is much more a CDU politician than a traditional SPD man.
Exactly. This is how he gets votes in rural Rheinland-Pfalz, which is very conservative (I should know, I live there).
At least Muentefering is back (he retired temporarely from politics last year to take care of his wife, who was suffering from terminal cancer, but appparently got bored at home after his wife passed away a few months ago and to Beck's chagrin, came back into politics). He is one of the last SPD politicians of the Helmut Schmidt line.
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 5964 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 554 times:
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3): a great foreign-politician not bending under pressure
... unless it's from China...
Quoting Rara (Reply 4): The SPD is traditionally the party for thinkers and intellectuals, who sometimes lose touch with the man on the street, while CDU and CSU are dominated by "doers" - sentiment-driven, instinct politicians well aware of what the common guy thinks.
There may just be a couple of hundred thousand people at least that disagree with you there. While the SPD is the home of teachers and a lot of professors, they're not necessarily the home for "thinkers"... thank goodness for that...
And at the moment, the SPD is primarily the proverbial "ship without captain". Maybe Müntefering can turn things around, but seeing as to how Beck let the whole SPD deteriorate into a party horribly afraid and willing to do almost everything for the left at the same time, I guess I'll just grab some popcorn and see who gets his head whacked off next...
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5): This is a bit of hair-splitting. Many "Socialists" are farther to the centre than many "Social-Democrats". So that the terms can mis-lead about actual positions of parties or individual politicians.
In Germany, there is a difference - the SPD are "Social Democrats" (at least in name, not really by behavior these past months), whereas the Socialists are "Die Linke". The latter are the ones that flat-out don't care about anything that has something to do with economic realities, or the realities of a globalized economy. They want practically everything to be paid by the state, except for the rich, who have to pay everything to the state.
The SPD, at least in theory, is more reasonable than that - though they've been trying everything possible in the past months to prove to everyone that it's not worth it voting for them, but that people should just vote for "Die Linke" instead.
Looking at how that idiot Beck handled the matter of the even greater idiot Ypsilanti, who stands ready to ruin the state I live in by forming a government that can only survive by being supported by "Die Linke", and seeing how the results for the SPD in polls have gone into a virtual free-fall, I think they've pretty much succeeded.
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 553 times:
It's a pity that people like Helmut Schmidt or Willy Brand have vanished from Germany's political scenery.
Also brains like Egon Bahr ,who determined largely the security and foreign-political horizon of Germany ,have not really found valid replacements within the German Social Democratic family.
I also would appreciate to see more Turkish-origin members of parliamant in prominent roles.Turks represent more than 3 Million people in Germany and many are born in the country-though in my opinion politically they are under-represented. (..and not all of them would vote left..)
Since the SPD would have to team with the ecologists and the "Links-partei" to gain a meaningful majority (..and even..) I don't see too much chance for Steinmeier to get the job.
Unless the CDU produces some major political gaffe...
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 9489 posts, RR: 62 Reply 9, posted (2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 546 times:
Quoting Leskova (Reply 7): There may just be a couple of hundred thousand people at least that disagree with you there. While the SPD is the home of teachers and a lot of professors, they're not necessarily the home for "thinkers"... thank goodness for that...
Quoting Leskova (Reply 7): In Germany, there is a difference - the SPD are "Social Democrats" (at least in name, not really by behavior these past months), whereas the Socialists are "Die Linke". The latter are the ones that flat-out don't care about anything that has something to do with economic realities, or the realities of a globalized economy. They want practically everything to be paid by the state, except for the rich, who have to pay everything to the state.
The SPD, at least in theory, is more reasonable than that - though they've been trying everything possible in the past months to prove to everyone that it's not worth it voting for them, but that people should just vote for "Die Linke" instead.
Looking at how that idiot Beck handled the matter of the even greater idiot Ypsilanti, who stands ready to ruin the state I live in by forming a government that can only survive by being supported by "Die Linke", and seeing how the results for the SPD in polls have gone into a virtual free-fall, I think they've pretty much succeeded.
The SPD used to be the home of industrial workers, who had a strong work ethics, but demanded a fair pay for their work. No anymore. In the 1960s-1970s, the party got taken over by "intellectual" academics.
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8): It's a pity that people like Helmut Schmidt or Willy Brand have vanished from Germany's political scenery.
Also brains like Egon Bahr ,who determined largely the security and foreign-political horizon of Germany ,have not really found valid replacements within the German Social Democratic family.
Don't forget Herbert Wehner with his corrosive rethorics.
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8): I also would appreciate to see more Turkish-origin members of parliamant in prominent roles.Turks represent more than 3 Million people in Germany and many are born in the country-though in my opinion politically they are under-represented. (..and not all of them would vote left..)
Many conservative Turkish Muslim immigrants actually vote for the conservative Christian CDU, since this party's social values fit more to their own. This sometimes causes a conflict with the more nationalist CDU members (those, who thry to define who is German by bloodline and also emphasize Chiristianity versus "foreign" Islam).
Turkish SPD bvoters are more those who either have academic degrees or work as blue collar workers involved in trade union issues.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 12519 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 532 times:
Quoting Leskova (Reply 7): This is a bit of hair-splitting. Many "Socialists" are farther to the centre than many "Social-Democrats". So that the terms can mis-lead about actual positions of parties or individual politicians.
In Germany, there is a difference - the SPD are "Social Democrats" (at least in name, not really by behavior these past months), whereas the Socialists are "Die Linke".
Right, just as in Switzerland. It however already becomes a bit more difficult in Austria, and "Beaucaire" is an "Ausland-Deutscher" in France ...........................
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Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8): people like Helmut Schmidt or Willy Brand
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while Willy Brandt was a Social Democrat as well as a "Socialist" Helmut Schmidt quite clearly, by the German definition, was/is a Social Democrat
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and let's not forget the unforgettable Herbert Wehner -- "geistige Terroristen" -----------
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9): The SPD used to be the home of industrial workers, who had a strong work ethics, but demanded a fair pay for their work. No anymore. In the 1960s-1970s, the party got taken over by "intellectual" academics.
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and THEN got into government. The industrial workers in between 1949 and 1968 were opposition
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 5964 posts, RR: 73 Reply 11, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 529 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10): Right, just as in Switzerland. It however already becomes a bit more difficult in Austria, and "Beaucaire" is an "Ausland-Deutscher" in France ...........................
How fitting, that I'm an "Auslands-Österreicher" in Germany...
I know what you mean, however, since we're talking about Germany, and Frank-Walter Steinmeier in particular here, the term Socialist really doesn't apply.
Now if Steinmeier would only get a course in "Speaking at regular speeds" - some people fall asleep in the time he takes to finish a sentence... ... ok... slight exaggeration, but nonetheless.
But at least he's really very good at what he does - though I think that he sometimes really goes too far in trying to create goodwill all around (China, Tibet & the Dalai Lama would be a prime example there), he most certainly is a good diplomat, and a good foreign secretary.
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 507 times:
Quoting Rara (Reply 14): Does the word "traditionally" mean anything to you?
No - I am a non-traditionalist
Seriously though, I would say that at no point in the post-war history, the SPD was truly fuelled by intellectuals. It may have been led by some, but would you say that in the 60ies and 70ies the majority of party members would have qualified as intellectuals? I do not think so. Back then, it were rather unionized factory workers and clerical employees. The longer I think about it, I think the SPD is traditionally the party of unionized factory workers and clerical employees.
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 505 times:
Yes, I agree. Workers and employees have made up the SPD membership base. Still, the party ideology was determined by left-wing intellectuals and thinkers much more so than the CDU line was determined by right-wing intellectuals. The FDP was rather similar to the SPD in that regard, it had lots of brilliant minds in its rows (Hamm-Brücher, Genscher and the like) - the switch to a black-and-yellow coalition 1983 changed all that, and we're arguably seeing a completely different FDP today.
It's a bit hard nowadays to imagine it because things have changed so much, but just think of how the worker's movement was fuelled by academics ("scientific socialism") - it contrasted with the much more down to earth, Christian, conservative, agriarian milieu of the right-wing parties. Sure it was the workers who unionized, went on the streets and voted social-democrat (or communist), but their leaders were scholars.
By the way, the 1968 movement is similar in structure. It was carried by simple people, it was radical and at times violent, but its intellectual roots lay in academics, like Critical Theory and the Frankfurt School. Much of the reaction against it was as much anti-intellectual as it was conservative.
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 490 times:
The ( current ) problems within the SPD are certainly to a large extent the cause of a weak management by Beck,who has -a long time ago already- reached his "limits of incompetence..."
Great politicians need charisma and personality-and he never had a way to develop that.He might be great for his Bundesland but certainly would not have given statue and potential to Germany as a chancellor.
I'm neutral in politics- as long as a politician can manage his job and develop "his" country within his function-great. But Germany has changed within the last ten years and became a "Mittelmacht" with more global military presence,accepted to take on more conflict-treatment involvement,had to re-think it's relations with France and Russia,and requires in my opinion, a more independent Middle East politic ( there are differences between Steinmeier and Merkel -she's more of an American slave while he steers a more independent course..)
Germany's defense minister is weak,our economics minister Glos (CSU ) has not much power and still fewer ideas,the finance-minister pulls all the strings -and budgets - but overall-I think,a great coalition is the worst form of political management for a country -except in war-times,where you need national consensus.
I'm afraid we will not see Steinmeier in a role he could very well fulfill,short of having a solid party-base that attracts enough voters.CDU are simply in a better shape although I'd prefer him on the job than Angie....well she's a licenced Physist !!- she'd find a great job within the nuclear industry
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From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4974 posts, 
From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 6263 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 12519 posts, 
... ok... slight exaggeration, but nonetheless.
How about the names Kurt Schumacher, Egon Bahr, Willy Brandt or Helmut Schmidt?