AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1576 times:
One of the legacies of Republican domination of the national government, with the exception of eight Clinton years in regard to the Executive, has been the rise of cynicism about racial issues. Whereas civil rights leaders were received with great acclaim in the White House, one is hard-pressed to find any recent instance in which President Bush or any important member of his Cabinet has conferred with any of them about the racial strife in America today.
Sadly, years of progress have been erased by an attitude of benign neglect on the part of the GOP.
This policy has contributed to the decline in the prestige of the United States -- one that, like the continual decline in the value of the dollar, may be as irreversible as it is tragic.
The American people are recognizing that much more attention must be paid to addressing the inequities inherent in our social systems. The next administration should take careful note of these facts.
B752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1573 times:
First and foremost, is not specifically the cynicism about racial issues, the Bush administration has stripped the civil liberties of all Americans, blacks, whites, Hispanics etc.
And I have the feeling that if the GOP retains power, things would be the same or perhaps worse (Rudy).
And about our prestige, we lost it all back in 2003, the subject has been widely discussed in this forum, but you would find that many still defend our failed foreign policy and the reasons we went to Iraq and the many things this administration has done all in the name of "National security" and "the war on terror".
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1571 times:
He has returned!
One problem, AF, the GOP does not CARE about minorities. They really don't. They don't care about people unless they're rich, or heading up corporations-you know, their core costintuents. The Democrats don't care a whole lot more, but at least you find minorities in large numbers, so that it has to be something considered in their ranks.
Yellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2): One problem, AF, the GOP does not CARE about minorities. They really don't. They don't care about people unless they're rich, or heading up corporations-you know, their core costintuents. The Democrats don't care a whole lot more, but at least you find minorities in large numbers, so that it has to be something considered in their ranks.
I remember thinking much the same thing after Kanye's infamous "George Bush don't care about black people" line. It's not that Bush doesn't care about black people, it's that he doesn't care about poor people, and blacks are disproportionately poor.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1541 times:
Thank you all for your responses.
I feel that many people have lost confidence in the virtue of the federal government, which is a more serious matter than its competence. The idea that government is uncaring and bureaucratic has never been far from the American psyche, and this much is simply a matter of healthy skepticism. However, there has lately appeared augmented in strength a more more severe form of anti-governmentism that questions the legitimacy of government as a whole. The rise of this Ron Paul-type libertarianism parallels a similar trend during the Reagan Administration, when extreme right-wing ideology was equally in vogue.
The problem with anti-governmentism isn't that it promotes salutary change. That's not a problem at all. The problem, rather, is that it allows groups who have never accepted the idea of the equality of peoples to take advantage of popular distrust to spread messages against brotherhood or mutual acceptance. Since government is de-legitimized in such fundamental terms, there are few remaining controls against the gradual dissociation of societal bonds and the growth of chaos and conflict is promoted.
I have come to the conclusion that, with respect to Bush, there is no "there" there. While he is no Chauncey Gardner, he is certainly less than Presidential in leadership, and this arises from the quality of the man rather than the doctrines he espouses. I'm afraid that I must admit that as to his tin ear for political trends, the liberals have been right all along: The wrong man won in November, 2000.
The state of the Union is not good. Racial harmony is worse than before Bush took office; our military is stretched, and border issues are aggravated by a federal government seemingly in conflict with itself. The dollar may soon be displaced as the preeminent world currency of exchange. Whether the use of English or Spanish as an official language has torn debates apart from local government boards in Southern California to the halls of Congress. The Union is more divided and more in peril than before Bush took office. And I think that the American people instinctively recognize this as a fact. Our rapid decline in international power and prestige only accentuates the sad state in which we find ourselves.
The next administration, therefore, must be one of rebirth. Whoever takes the reins of power should understand that it will be a time for national and international healing, and disposal of the policy of neglect that has turned out to be anything but benign.
It's time to give those of us who are not fat cats our due.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1468 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4): The state of the Union is not good. Racial harmony is worse than before Bush took office
Wow. something else to blame on Bush. I'm glad you've pointed this out, since blaming him for almost everything else was getting kind of boring.
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4): The next administration, therefore, must be one of rebirth.
Unfortunately, your wish won't be granted. President to be Hillary Clinton has already told us what her goal is: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
Just how is that going to unite us?
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4): It's time to give those of us who are not fat cats our due.
Of course, how much can you trust what the leader of Iran or Chavez have to say about the United States? Probaby not much at all...
But it still does help to frame the bigger picture of oil nations trying to steer away from the dollar, the consolidation of the Euro, Yen, Yuan and local emerging market currencies as strong reserve units, the decline of the use of the dollar for transborder transactions in Latin America (at least between Brazil and Argentina)... and even individuals starting to have their salaries switched to other currencies, as some famous individuals have recently said on the news.
I don't think the dollar will collapse, but it's in a bit more trouble than I thougth a few months ago. It is a real devaluation going on, something US citizens probably have never seen in their recent lives. We can help you here we have some experience on this one... :-|
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1413 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter): One of the legacies of Republican domination of the national government, with the exception of eight Clinton years in regard to the Executive, has been the rise of cynicism about racial issues.
Except that Dubya appointed two high profile blacks to Secretary of State and a Hispanic to the Supreme Court which is something that never happened on the watch of everybody's favorite "First Black President" Bill Clinton. Oh wait...they're sellouts, Uncle Toms, and House Negros when they work with Whitey. Never mind, my bad.
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter): Sadly, years of progress have been erased by an attitude of benign neglect on the part of the GOP.
So they are the only ones to blame? You're not going to lay blame at the feet of the very people who as a whole (obviously not every one of them but there is an ounce of truth in every stereotype) continue to have high rates of out-of-wedlock kids, continued high crime rates, no interest in education despite numerous programs to help them out, continued poverty because it is easier to "blame whitey" than it is to actually get off their ass and do some hard effing work instead of pandering their votes to the party that will give them the most?
Yeah, it's all the GOP's fault that blacks and hispanics are where they are today.
I don't hear the Asian minorities bitching about how horrible their lives are and how the GOP is screwing them over. Could that be because the Asian minorities here give a damn about their education, family, etc.?
Nah, it could never be that. It's too effing convenient to blame Dubya, blame the evil white devil, and complain about your plight but never do an effing thing about it.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 1): the Bush administration has stripped the civil liberties of all Americans, blacks, whites, Hispanics etc.
And yet we continue to walk about daily unencumbered without having to show our "papers" to a thug police state, can accomplish whatever we want if we put our minds to it, and generally don't live under a repressive regime like 1984. Yeah, what a horrible repression and stripping of our civil liberties.
Name me one change that has affected your life. Just one. Name it. Come on....never mind.
[Edited 2007-11-18 16:15:23]
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1389 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Sadly, years of progress have been erased by an attitude of benign neglect on the part of the GOP.
Does "state rights" ring a bell, just look where President Reagan travel to to announce his run for the White House for 1980 the town in Mississippi where the Civil Rights workers were killed.
Its to bad, that the Republican party is controlled by one block..the moderates and liberals (remember the Rockefeller's Republicans) have lost their voice, in some places right or wrong in the USA the Democrats are seen as the party of the blacks and Latinos and the Republicans the party of the whites.
Here is a example of the hatred some in the Republican party in Arizona has for other races: Maricopa County Republican Sheriff Joe Arpaio said on national television earlier this week (Lou Dobbs) that is an honor to be compared to the Ku Klux Klan. - East Valley Tribune.11/15/07
[Edited 2007-11-18 16:36:05] Edited due to problems in copying quote.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29352 posts, RR: 62 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1376 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 9): the town in Mississippi where the Civil Rights workers were killed.
I belive the killers where George Wallace Democrats....Not Republicans.
Fact is the Lincoln was a republican and it has been the republicans that have been on the forefront of breaking the poverty cycle that hits minorities particluarly hard.
The Democrats have a habit of keeping them in it, Just looks at the lack of help the great society provided, or their constant battles to expand the welfar roles.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7647 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1368 times:
The thread title should be changed to 'A Sad Legacy of American Government'. This is not a one-party issue and you know it AF. The whole of American government shares blame in the neglect and misapplication of assistance that has aided and abetted in the continuation of poor minority plight. One side has preached 'stop whining and pull yourself by the bootstraps' while the other has yapped '1965 brought us no miracles so we're going to give you handout reparations'. Both have been nothing except counterproductive.
Hashing out community-based solutions rooted in a reevaluation of national priorities would certainly be a start, but there's no political leadership with the skills, much less pragmatism, required to do so.
[Edited 2007-11-18 16:56:06]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
B752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1354 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 7): And yet we continue to walk about daily unencumbered without having to show our "papers" to a thug police state, can accomplish whatever we want if we put our minds to it, and generally don't live under a repressive regime like 1984. Yeah, what a horrible repression and stripping of our civil liberties.
Name me one change that has affected your life. Just one. Name it. Come on....never mind.
Before the third reich, people walked around without no issue, after the nazis took power, things remained somewhat the same. But after they started to blame the jews or the poles and the others for the "attacks" perpetrated against them, little by little they were implementing the police state. I am quite sure that for a long time in Nazi Germany people weren't being stopped by police, but when Hitler agendas came to play things changed, and he began to change the laws. When they were suspicious and guessed the person was a jew or a pole ( but mainly those who opposed the regime) they stopped them to ask for their papers and perhaps take them to questioning by the SS. Go to an airport today and if your last name is Arab you would be stopped the same, if you are lucky they let you on the plane that's if you arent in the black list. So please do not ask me if I still have my rights, don't tell me that I have the "liberty" of dissent and others.
Today our federal government as in the third reich has the right to take you into a secret prison, torture you, and not be required to present you to a court of law. No habeas corpus any more, no due process of law, and you know that all is permitted on the current "war on terror". And BTW you know about the Patriot Act.
We have seen it in 7 years of GWB administration, some of our liberties and parts of the bill or rights have been relinquished.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1343 times:
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 12): Before the third reich, people walked around without no issue, after the nazis took power, things remained somewhat the same.
Godwin's Law invoked and it only took 12 posts. Feel free to close the thread Mods...everything has been solved.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 12): Today our federal government as in the third reich has the right to take you into a secret prison, torture you, and not be required to present you to a court of law. No habeas corpus any more, no due process of law, and you know that all is permitted on the current "war on terror". And BTW you know about the Patriot Act.
Give me the name of one person you know or anyone within 10 degrees of separation you know that has been the victim of this stuff. I know you can't so drop the crap. Your life hasn't changed one bit.
And before you start I am in full agreement that we are giving Osama Bin Lopez or whatever the hell the name of the jackass hispanic guy who planned to set off a dirty bomb in Chicago is getting a raw deal and should be afforded his rights as a US citizen. I have complained about that in letters to my GOP congressman and GOP senators and I haven't been dragged off as a subversive. Better yet, I haven't even had my security clearances revoked and by writing these letters I have spoken out against the Administration and they still haven't come to round me up and ship me off to Gitmo.
For the ones we have captured who are not US citizens, don't wear the uniform of any recognized army, and plot to destroy us I say F*** THEM! You don't want to be held in a secret prison and be treated poorly and perhaps even tortured then perhaps you should have thought about that before you tried to attack us. Just a thought as crazy as it is.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
B752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1326 times:
.
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 13): Give me the name of one person you know or anyone within 10 degrees of separation you know that has been the victim of this stuff. I know you can't so drop the crap. Your life hasn't changed one bit.
I haven't been a victim, but plenty of innocent law abiding citizens have, and the way I live in this society is that if it happens to you, it might happen to me.
I just think that the more we let them do it, the closer it would be when we won't have a bill of rights. If then why did the patriot act needed to be given at midnight so it could be approved very late at night almost morning?
Look, I have used the Nazi Germany example just to show how things came about, and that's the way we are headed if we keep on this state of fear.
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 13): For the ones we have captured who are not US citizens, don't wear the uniform of any recognized army, and plot to destroy us I say F*** THEM! You don't want to be held in a secret prison and be treated poorly and perhaps even tortured then perhaps you should have thought about that before you tried to attack us. Just a thought as crazy as it is.
If your history is right, you might remember that we have done this sort of things before to our own citizens, when the attack of pearl harbor happened and the US went to WWII, what did they do with those Japanese-Americans? And no, it is not my revisionist history, we have done it before and I am sure if we are still with the same mentality we are to do it again.
What's more vexing is to know how many of those Japanese-americans that were taken into concentration camps and held in questioning illegally were part of some sort of conspiracy? None, but of course only ten people were found to be spies and they were yes, white Caucasians.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1317 times:
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14): I haven't been a victim, but plenty of innocent law abiding citizens have
Name one of them. Just one. It's quite simple. I would think you would have a whole list at the ready from some uber-liberal human rights group...or does it not exist because it hasn't happened? Hmmmm.....makes me think you don't have anything to back up your ravings.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14): If your history is right, you might remember that we have done this sort of things before to our own citizens, when the attack of pearl harbor happened and the US went to WWII, what did they do with those Japanese-Americans?
I know my history more than you ever will and I do know what we did to the Japanese during WWII. It was a different time and different circumstances and in the end of it all it wasn't the right thing to do. I can only hope that we learned from that lesson and don't make the same mistake again.
If you think that is going to happen again you are uneducated at best and I'll avoid saying what your worst is lest I get a ban for calling you out for what you are.
Your miseducation isn't worth a ban.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14): Look, I have used the Nazi Germany example just to show how things came about, and that's the way we are headed if we keep on this state of fear.
No, you used the Nazi Germany example because you have no strong argument and are looking for just shock value to disguise your poor and uneducated thought process that stems from your hatred of the current administration. Godwin's Law...look it up...you're a perfect example of it.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
LAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1314 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2): AF, the GOP does not CARE about minorities.
no kidding. Almost every major Democratic Candidate has a section of their website dedicated to minorities, none of the GOP candidates that have anything similar to that.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1314 times:
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14): I haven't been a victim, but plenty of innocent law abiding citizens have,
Name one, please. If you can, of course.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14): I just think that the more we let them do it, the closer it would be when we won't have a bill of rights. If then why did the patriot act needed to be given at midnight so it could be approved very late at night almost morning?
Please identify a single provision of the Bill of Rights that has been nullified by the Patriot Act or any other similar legislation.
Czbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 933 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1307 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 13): Give me the name of one person you know or anyone within 10 degrees of separation you know that has been the victim of this stuff.
Maher Arar --> Jack Layton --> Jean Chretien --> A Friend --> Me.
Within 5 degrees of separation.
Gross miscarriage of justice.
The State completely out of control
US Government still hasn't admitted fault.
B752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15): Name one of them. Just one. It's quite simple. I would think you would have a whole list at the ready from some uber-liberal human rights group...or does it not exist because it hasn't happened? Hmmmm.....makes me think you don't have anything to back up your ravings.
Law abiding citizens that are stopped at airports because they are in a black list? by mistake? thousands.
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15): I know my history more than you ever will and I do know what we did to the Japanese during WWII. It was a different time and different circumstances and in the end of it all it wasn't the right thing to do. I can only hope that we learned from that lesson and don't make the same mistake again.
If you think that is going to happen again you are uneducated at best and I'll avoid saying what your worst is lest I get a ban for calling you out for what you are.
Your miseducation isn't worth a ban.
Its highly inappropriate that you need to go down into personal attacks. If you can read everything I have written to you, you can see that I have not done that. So, in this case the mis-educated is you for not keeping the debate in a level in which we could all expose our ideas without personal bashing.
The circumstances were pretty much the same after pearl harbor happened, everyone has said it, Pearl harbor was before 9-11 the worse attack in US soil, 9-11 was thus in the same category.
Things were pretty much the same, we were then obliged to enter the war, the same thing we have done in Afghanistan and by GWB standards in Iraq. So this eternal war of terror is the equivalent of what we lived post-pearl harbor years.
You said that we are never going to do this to citizens, but you acknowledge that it was a mistake before, but it was a "mistake" done out of fear, and in the time since 9-11 many "mistakes" have happened by fear. So its quite the same thing it could happen again, and the Gitmo is an example, but they aren't US citizens.
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 17): Please identify a single provision of the Bill of Rights that has been nullified by the Patriot Act or any other similar legislation.
The fourth amendment, fifth amendment, sixth amendment (gitmo).
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 16): Almost every major Democratic Candidate has a section of their website dedicated to minorities, none of the GOP candidates that have anything similar to that.
You want to rethink that one or would you like to be called out for either not doing research or being an outright liar? The choice is yours.
honestly, I didnt see that, but do the GOP candidates have a page where they talk about minority issues? The major democratic candidates did have that.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
B752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1296 times:
Oh, I see he might have mistaken my reply thinking that Americans have been submitted to that kind of treatment. I meant other civil liberties, but yes the Canadian is an example, the German citizen is another example but those weren't Americans I am sure he would say.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1293 times:
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 19): Its highly inappropriate that you need to go down into personal attacks.
But that's your standard MO so I figure fight fire with fire. I at least have to knowledge to back it up versus your miseducation.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 19): The circumstances were pretty much the same after pearl harbor happened, everyone has said it, Pearl harbor was before 9-11 the worse attack in US soil, 9-11 was thus in the same category.
Have we done wholesale roundups of Muslims? Arabs? Iraqis? Iranians? Afghanis?
Have we?
I think you know the answer. Try again please.
Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 19): Gitmo is an example, but they aren't US citizens.
And therein lies the rub...they aren't US citizens and aren't subject to the Constitution or any of the rights afforded to those of us who are citrizens.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
LAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23): ...they aren't US citizens and aren't subject to the Constitution or any of the right
wow, so that means I can serve this country laying my life on the line, and I can be subjected to arrest without due process of law if they deem me to be a threat, great.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
25 DeltaGator: Thems the rules. If you don't like it feel free to take the steps to become a citizen to have these rights or move elsewhere. That's how they've been
26 Halls120: Really? Care to provide any evidence of the above? Which specific provision of the Patriot Act has nullified those Constitutional Amendment? Or are w
27 LAXspotter: I see, so anyone who is not a US Citizen is bound to be shot, killed, castrated, taken to prison for eternity simply because the Constitution accordi
28 B752fanatic: The government has profiled most religious organized American Muslims as potential terrorists, to me is the same thing. Ah, then the question arises
29 DeltaGator: Didn't you get the memo? LAXSpotter and B752fanatic can spout off anything they want and not have anything to back it up. That's their SOP. Like I sa
30 LAXspotter: so wait, I'm supposed to live by the law of the land, pay the taxes and I can have due process of law taken away from me, excellent. I'm done.
31 B752fanatic: Oh please spare me another debate with you sir. I have had already the dreadful experience in the NHS thread in which I spent hours giving you eviden
32 DeltaGator: Are you planning on breaking the law and plotting the overthrow of the US government? If so then I would suggest moving. If not then you have nothing
33 RJdxer: As pointed out in an earlier post, not one but two black Sec States, one of them a female. A Hispanic AG. Of course as also pointed out, since they d
34 LAXspotter: According to that logic, youre telling me that I am a suspect of a crime and I'm apprehended by the police, since I'm not a citizen I can be detained
35 RJdxer: As long as they aren't in our country. That is why they are being held in Gitmo. Technically that is Cuba, we just lease the land. No they can't. Eve
36 DeltaGator: I believe that is more a matter of being nice. They do not have to be given those rights. We choose to give them those and they can be rescinded at a
37 Halls120: What it means is that if you are not a US citizen and not physically in the United States, you cannot expect to avail yourself of US Constitutional r
38 Mham001: I'm just wondering where is all this supposed "racial strife"?
39 LAXspotter: It just is, I'll ask my constitutional history teacher. yeah might as well stop them from flying, joining the US armed forces because obviously they'
40 B752fanatic: That means that if ever you set foot outside of your country you are to accept that for example in Costa Rica you are not into the laws of that natio
41 RJdxer: I'm not a lawyer but I don't think that's how it works. If you commit a crime on United States territory, then you are given all the rights under the
42 Halls120: What it means is, that if I travel to Costa Rica and commit a crime, I'm subject to the laws of Costa Rica, not the United States. Well.........since
43 DeltaGator: That's the way it is. That country can give you the rights of their Constitution if they want to do so. I would expect them to or otherwise have the
44 LAXspotter: this plan is going to backfire, because the new recruits of Al Qaeda will probably be men in their early years who are not Middle Eastern or South As
45 B752fanatic: I am not a lawyer, but I have some knowledge about this subject, but RJdxer is, and he is not a "liberal" as me, read his reply on the subject REPLY
46 DeltaGator: GOP fanatic? Hardly. Thanks for playing though. You don't know me at all. Try again. Actually...never mind...you lose. You've had enough chances and
47 Halls120: Did you really think anyone was confusing you with one? Really? Perhaps you'll start displaying it. After all, you are the one who says the PA has su
48 L-188: Funny I didn't see Kevin Bacon's name in that list once.
49 B752fanatic: Thanks, I must say that I was somewhat intimidated by you before. I thought I was debating for real, but you and Halls are just the same kind of thin
50 LAXspotter: yeah and I'm not PC obsessed liberal
51 DeltaGator: I know I'm not. I am still working under the impression that he is an expert economist along the lines of Alan Greenspan. I mean he did learn everyth
52 LAXspotter: read this carefully guys, there are going to be incidents where foreign nationals who dont "look" or seem muslims are going to carry out these attack
53 Halls120: In other words, you aren't going to put your money where your mouth is. Nice to see that you think that it is absurd to post supporting documentation
54 RJdxer: And if and when they adjust to that tactic, we will change ours. Until then, if you are a Muslim man between 18 and 35, you will, and should, receive
55 LAXspotter: yeah, forget about being proactive, lets not search that white guy because up until now he hasnt shown signs of being violent or capable of such hein
57 DeltaGator: Do you mean profiling? Heaven forbid....we can't do that! That would be wrong and un-PC. Until then let's keep searching little girls, nuns, and nerd
58 LAXspotter: look earlier, I said I'm not particuarly against searching Muslims, my mom is okay with it, and I certainly dont see the reason to protest if it is i
59 Aaron747: Mentality has nothing to do with it - it's the way of the world and it's not going to change while any of us are still alive. Obviously, you lack the
60 DeltaGator: I have a crazy idea LAXspotter...stop looking for the weapon as we currently do and start looking for the terrorist. It works for the Israelis and it
61 Halls120: Back in January 2002, I was getting ready to board a flight departing VIE. One of the passengers - dressed in traditional middle eastern garb, tried
62 LAXspotter: so much for being proactive, BTW, this policy assumes that most Arab-Americans are Muslim, when a large majority are actually Christian. It will be a
63 B752fanatic: I am sorry, but I don't think you are noticing what I am saying here. What I was refuting is that if you are not an American citizen apparently you d
64 Aaron747: Japan does it. Holding foreigners for 23 days without consular or legal contact (1 day without a lawyer for Japanese citizens) has been known to happ
65 DeltaGator: The absurdity is you plain and simple. I'll say my peace and be done with you. I can't believe I've let it go this far as it is. I did not say that w
66 Viaggiare: Martial law? Executed for a citation? Just so you know, Costa Rica abolished the death penalty in 1877, and its armed forces in 1949. Exactly. Althou
67 B752fanatic: Sir, clearly it seems that you are not getting what I am saying. I support what you just said, people NEED to be held accountable for their actions i
68 B752fanatic: I know, is a bit confusing, I was merely giving a hypothesis based on what other fellow anetters just said about the US constitution. It was just an
69 DeltaGator: Sorry...you lose. Please read for comprehension. Pretty clear. We do not have to give them the rights of the Constitution. Again, pretty clear...we d
70 LAXspotter: Probably the view of Scalia, Darrow and Alito, but where in the Constitution does it say that it is only applicable to US citizens. Furthermore if we
71 Halls120: Delta Gator never said that. You still don't get it. Just so you don't think all of us alleged right wing devils are making this stuff up, here is wh
72 RJdxer: Well, as long as your mom says it's ok. Gitmo is not a part of the United States. It is leased land that belongs to Cuba. If it were United States te
73 AerospaceFan: Thanks to everyone for their comprehensive comments. I wish at this time to point out two sources of information which may cast light on my main thesi
74 Mham001: And you continue to try to create a tempest in a teapot. The article from "The Peoples Media Comapny" may say racism is increasing, but gives absolut
75 AerospaceFan: Here are some interesting cases of racial strife as mentioned in the following sources: http://media.www.beaconnewspaper.com...ty.Affecting.Schools-30
76 RJdxer: Guess its not just the Republican party after all...... http://opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010881
77 AerospaceFan: The latest news concerning FBI statistics confirms that racism is on the rise in America: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7103244.stm
78 RJdxer: Not so fast. If the liberal to a fault Southern Poverty Law Centre had this to say: "Heidi Beirich, from the Southern Poverty Law Centre in Montgomer
79 Halls120: So what is your solution to this so-called rise in racial strife?
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