M11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1207 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7579 times:
I doubt it will be replaced for a while. A 777-300ER seems likely IMO because of its similar size to the 742 and it has great range. The whole 747-8 program is sketchy at this point.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3075 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7487 times:
Given the world financial mess at the moment, and that the 742's currently used are in top notch condition, is a new AF1 really needed at the moment?
Sure it will eventually need to be replaced. But I dont think anybody in Washington should even dare talk about it it in the current financial climate. Especially after mr Obama has decided to go and chase Wall Street for their excesses. Not a good look politically.
That being said the answer is simple. Whatever is boeing's largest product on offer at the time, unless we start seeing another large airframe locally manufacturered in the USA. Highly unlikely but not impossible if you saw some kind of Airbus-Lockheed joint venture. In the current environment i wouldn't bet on it but if things get messy enough all of these companies as we know them may look very different in 10 years time.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5770 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7487 times:
I would say the 777-200LR, due to its extensive range.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Nitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7311 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3): Will this 'new' Air Force One thread ever die.....?????
Sorry bro, didn't mean to cramp your style, the question remains valid though, as that 747 is OLD, those 757s have to be aging by now too. An airframe can only handle so much. Should we build a replica of the 1st 742? Or how about a rebuilt Concorde? Perhaps a bit much, but a bitchin, idea
Daleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 15 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7308 times:
I think the USAF would always choose a 4 engined aircraft for the primary Air Force One aircraft, purely based on the safety of having more than one engine left if one fails...
That's my opinion anyway. But like stated above, AF1 is in near perfect condition. It's unlikely that the aircraft will need replacing anytime soon.
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 836 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7232 times:
Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 13): That's my opinion anyway. But like stated above, AF1 is in near perfect condition. It's unlikely that the aircraft will need replacing anytime soon.
I believe Obama is actually the one that will pick the replacement that will come out in 2017. It doesn't matter if it's "in near perfect condition" ...it's getting replaced.
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6): Check out "Military&Space" forum. My answer none, US can´t afford it.
Call the US Government and thell them that they can't afford it. I'm sure you'll be met with a a laugh and a hang up.
[Edited 2009-03-23 19:07:35]
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3036 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7230 times:
Quoting Nitepilot79 (Reply 12): Sorry bro, didn't mean to cramp your style, the question remains valid though, as that 747 is OLD, those 757s have to be aging by now too.
An aircraft's useful life isn't determined by age - moreso by cycles and number of hours in the air - both of which the VC25s are very low on. Theoretically, these birds could last forever at the current rate they're being utilized.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7143 times:
There is already a request out for concepts, and Airbus just declined to bid.
The 748 is the obvious choice.
An alternative is to retrofit the current aircraft.
As for Obama not ordering them? He has no problem spending money on government things. He's spent large sums redecorating the West Wing. All he'll say is that these create jobs for Americans and are necessary, and people will say fine.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 17): An aircraft's useful life isn't determined by age - moreso by cycles and number of hours in the air - both of which the VC25s are very low on. Theoretically, these birds could last forever at the current rate they're being utilized.
Most people say this without doing the research.
I did the research.
The VC-25s are getting old by AF1 standards, and will ultimately be the oldest primary AF1s in the history of the designation by the time they are replaced even if the planes are ordered tomorrow, as they wouldn't be in service before 2014.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5532 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7128 times:
Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 1): I doubt it will be replaced for a while.
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5): Given the world financial mess at the moment, and that the 742's currently used are in top notch condition, is a new AF1 really needed at the moment?
Quoting Heathrow (Reply 9): Not now, but in the future, it will need to be replaced.
All of you apparent don't remember or don't realize that the US Government is already soliciting Boeing and Airbus for a RFP for a replacement of the VC-25A. Airbus has already stated that they will not participate in the RFP.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3075 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7107 times:
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 16): Call the US Government and thell them that they can't afford it. I'm sure you'll be met with a a laugh and a hang up.
Oh they can afford it all right. It's a question of priorieties. Is a new imperial barge needed at the moment for the head of state when he is telling everybody to pull in the belt, stick to gether and well, that money could simply be put to more productive use in a difficult time. Perception is everything in politics. Sometimes to the rediculous. See the situation with the UK and its complete lack of anything suitable for the PM. At least during the thatcher days you could use the VC-10, and even though there's still a few of them about its far past its used by date, and a joke when you consider that heads of state in northern african republics are ordering A345s. (once again probably too excessive... opposite end of the spectrum).
Given this, I think the US has the right balance at the moment. Something that can do the job well for the moment, and they can wait until things are in a bit of a happier general mood before they order a replacement. If they want to do anything they can always do some interior rennovations.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6974 times:
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 20): Is a new imperial barge needed at the moment for the head of state when he is telling everybody to pull in the belt, stick to gether and well, that money could simply be put to more productive use in a difficult time.
Two 748s would not be paid for in 2009, but in 3 years for the frames, and then over the next 2 years for the modifications.
If Obama says "things not going to get better so we can't afford to buy planes 3-5 years from now" his words will help to prolong the recession, not help end it.
Not to mention that in the grand scheme of the $3T budget and such, $800M spread out over 3-4 years starting 3 years from now is a penny in the bottomless well. That's at most $400M in any one year period, or 0.01% of the budget. On something that creates jobs in America...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Rwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2155 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6964 times:
Ask a mechanic about the Boeing-made, Air Force-maintained B-52.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 17): An aircraft's useful life isn't determined by age - more so by cycles and number of hours in the air - both of which the VC25s are very low on. Theoretically, these birds could last forever at the current rate they're being utilized.
Ask a mechanic about the Boeing-made, Air Force-maintained VC-25.
Neither of these birds are anywhere NEAR retirement.
Boeing has the most experience in making large aircraft, while the USAF has the best aircraft maintenance.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 836 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6954 times:
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 20): Given this, I think the US has the right balance at the moment. Something that can do the job well for the moment, and they can wait until things are in a bit of a happier general mood before they order a replacement. If they want to do anything they can always do some interior rennovations.
You're point is taken; however, whether made public or not during the global recession I bet you that the Obama administration will select the replacements for all presidential aircraft in this term. The planes wont be delivered until 2017 but I'll bet almost anything that Obama will be the one making the selection.
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
26 Lufthansa: Very good point. Of course it could be ordered and it kept somewhat quiet until a later more popular date, under some 'defence' project that doesnt h
27 Babybus: The way things are in the world these days could I suggest the Boeing 737-200 series? I presume the President would want to stay with Boeing rather th
28 EMBQA: Not when the same subject gets asked 50 times a year. A quick search will find endless threads on this subject.... and those are just the ones the mo
29 EMBQA: ......oh and age has nothing to do with it. Only one thing kills an aircraft...cycles...and since the VC-25 is one of the lowest time/cycle 747 in th
30 Kingairta: People forget were talking about the Govt here as well. While the current VC-25 may be in good condition now you have to look to the future. If everyt
31 Ex52tech: Exactly!!! I can not believe that they are talking about replacing the current VC-25s. I would not like to see the next AF ONE to be a two engine air
32 Flighty: I think definitely given some commercial aircraft have gone past 30 years of active service (think NWA 742s, still active IIRC, 100k+ hours), 30 year
33 Oroka: But isnt the VC-25s a hybrid between the 742 and the 744? I am pretty sure the VC-25s got a lot of stuff that was in line for the 744.
34 DL767captain: I have no idea where you get this idea, the 748i program doesn't have a ton of orders but the 748f has plenty of orders and has already started assem
35 DfwRevolution: The Executive Branch would lobby for the 747-8I for no other reason than because that's what the public "expects" when they see Air Force One. To the
36 HercPPMX: Support could indeed become a problem, I'm am fairly confident that the USAF realizes this and would probably easily justify the creation of a stock-
37 Ex52tech: Just park some 742s and 744s in the bone yard, and you have a supply of parts for the VC-25s. For the specialized parts that are common only to the VC
39 Par13del: The B-748 seems to have been a better made pic, the B-777 has too many windows, they appear to be unmodified from the pax version. Reduce the windows
40 Mir: Aerial refueling capability kind of cancels that out. And the maintenance those things get cancels that out. The VC-25s get the tenderest of care fro
41 DL767captain: It would probably be nice if they could fly longer without having to refuel though, lets say there are 80 people onboard the 772LR could fly forever!
42 N829th: Even though the 777 would function as a great AF1, half of the reason they fly the 742 right now is because of the reputation and the look of that mon
43 DEVILFISH: In view of which, one may also recommend your namesake for the Queen's Flight and Brown Force One, as they seem more in need of it..... http://www.fl
44 Dtw9: In this age of cutbacks, and with the number of people out of work,I think the appropriate next generation Air force One should look like this.
45 DL767captain: Like when he came to long beach the other week? It was complete overkill but it still looked pretty cool having that large of a plane sitting there r
46 Par13del: It's somewhat puzzling that some one who actually flew the a/c seemed to think that it was only for transportation from point A to point B. Bummer.
Sponsor Message: 
From Turkey, joined May 2008, 248 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1207 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 944 posts, 
From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3075 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 734 posts, 
From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3184 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
