WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8 Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11039 times:
Boeing today revealed in their monthly database update that the Republic of Iraq is the customer behind the previously unidentified order for ten 787-8s on 22 Dec 2009. The engine choice for the order has not been made public.
I think this is an important enough milestone that it deserves a separate thread
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
PlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 530 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10917 times:
Wonderful! Welcome back to being interconnected with and a part of the rest of the world (for those on the A side of ledger, my praise is for Iraq not necessarily their aircraft choice).
discoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 782 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10877 times:
Will these by flown by Iraqi Airways, or put to some other use? It seems funny that a national government would order ten such planes for its own use.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26722 posts, RR: 83 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10843 times:
Quoting discoverCSG (Reply 2): It seems funny that a national government would order ten such planes for its own use.
Maybe the government is the one paying the bills.
Or perhaps it's like a China thing where the government (through CAAC) places the order and then divvies it up amongst the various national carriers. Though Boeing lists those orders by the carrier when the assignment is made, not to CAAC when the order is placed.
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10782 times:
Iraqi Airways is owned by the Govt. of Iraq. There had been a news release by Boeing two years ago about the fact the Govt. of Iraq would order 10 x 787 and 30 x 737-800 (See this old thread for the link: Iraq Airways Orders 30/737's & 10/787's! (by BoeingFever777 Mar 31 2008 in Civil Aviation) ). The 737s were booked on 03-April-2008, and Boeing said that the 787s would be added to the orders and deliveries site on the completion of all contractual issues. It looks like they completed the contract for the 787s only in Dec 2009.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
smi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1382 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10658 times:
Quoting WestWing (Reply 4): There had been a news release by Boeing two years ago about the fact the Govt. of Iraq would order 10 x 787 and 30 x 737-800
When are delivers due to start? Any idea what routes the 787 are due to be placed on?
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1115 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10358 times:
Politics aside....
I'm happy to see Iraqi Airways begin to rebuild. Always loved their colors and they should look great on the 787. I for one will be looking forward to seeing them again.
clydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9873 times:
Quoting WestWing (Thread starter): Boeing today revealed in their monthly database update that the Republic of Iraq is the customer behind the previously unidentified order for ten 787-8s on 22 Dec 2009. The engine choice for the order has not been made public.
I think this is an important enough milestone that it deserves a separate thread
I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
Eagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1619 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9774 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13): I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
Seconded.
I can see the need for the B737s maybe, but a devastated country ordering 10 B787s! Do they even have the technical expertise to operate these aircraft, wouldn't they be better buying secondhand B767s?
Seems like a waste of money better spent on reconstruction efforts.
BrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1275 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9647 times:
Good news from Iraq again. Whatever the plane type it's good to know they're back in the market. Now I don't hope that this is not on the expense of other life commodities but rather as part of a global strategy for the people and the country.
Frankly, as a European, I wouldn't say that Europe did much in liberating Iraq. In either case this shouldn't have any kind of influence on any bidding process, let Iraq get the best deal.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6363 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9546 times:
I can see that new aircraft are needed given the limited aircraft available that newer planes will be needed.
IMO this is a case of more shiny toys to match other regional carriers and perhaps more B737-800 and a few second hand B767 would have been better.
Incidentally, when will these aircraft, especially the B787 actualy be delivered and paid for.
cuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 207 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9524 times:
Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 15): Frankly, as a European, I wouldn't say that Europe did much in liberating Iraq. In either case this shouldn't have any kind of influence on any bidding process, let Iraq get the best deal.
Well, I would not say that Iraq is liberated!!
Which future destinations would be the most suitable for 787 operations??
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8413 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13): I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 14): I can see the need for the B737s maybe, but a devastated country ordering 10 B787s!
This is the same poo that was flung at Ethiopian when they ordered new aircraft. And how exactly do you propose that an impoverished nation attempt to bring itself to the big boys club if they are not able to offer world-class services? Anyhow, this is ten airframes, and not an EK-style expansion.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
discoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 782 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8306 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13): I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
Aren't we always hearing that air service, especially on international routes is a boon for a local/national economy? And if that's true, don't you think these planes would eventually pay for themselves many times over?
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 14): I can see the need for the B737s maybe, but a devastated country ordering 10 B787s! Do they even have the technical expertise to operate these aircraft, wouldn't they be better buying secondhand B767s?
767's, secondhand or otherwise, would have a difficult time operating some of the long-haul routes Iraqi Airways evidently has in mind (to North America, Asia, etc.). Also, while Iraq is certainly a nation on the rebound, it is naturally a regional powerhouse, what with all that oil everybody likes to mention. Iraqis aren't any stupider than anyone else, and with some training, I'm sure they'll learn to operate the 787 as efficiently and safely as anybody could.
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 16): IMO this is a case of more shiny toys to match other regional carriers
Didn't you get the memo? The 787's chief defect, according to some a.netters, is that it isn't shiny at all.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26722 posts, RR: 83 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8257 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13): I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
You've got to spend money to make money.
Like Nigeria, having long-range aircraft that can reach the capitals of your major oil-consuming customers helps you stay in contact and keep the black gold flowing out and the gold gold flowing in to fund those "different priorities".
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8062 times:
The 787 order backlog is 876. Assuming that Iraq were not assigned early production slots - it may be 7-8 years before Iraq receive their 787s -their economy ought to be in better shape by then.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
NWA330nut From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7943 times:
That's great news for Iraq! Another step for such a once but in some cases still a troubled country.
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 18): A bit of a vanity purchase really, a couple of secondhand 767s or A340s would make more sense, when the country is still in a turbulent condition.
I'm totally with you on that. I would have thought that they would have picked up stored planes, being that it would seem that they would want to spend their money elsewhere.
PillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 243 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7936 times:
Iraqi Airways has been a major operator of Boeing products for decades. At various times they've had 707s, 727s, 737s, 747s and 767s in their fleet. I don't see why anyone would find their continued loyalty to Boeing offensive.
I think some people like to be overly sensational when it comes to Iraqi-American relations.
rangercarp From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6133 times:
Several have mentioned wondering why they don't buy used 767's or other older planes. I am wondering if they will. It will most certainly be several years before they get those 87's. In the short term they may consider some used frames as interim lift, or to supplement the future 788's.
adamblang From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5689 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 21): You've got to spend money to make money.
Furthermore, when people have jobs, they tend to have better things to do than blow their country up. So you're directly hiring people to operate, maintain, clean, cater the aircraft. And hopefully generating indirect jobs through the extra commerce connections to the outside world will generate. And buying new 787s might make customers chose that airline over, say, Turkish or Mahan keeping more airfare revenue in Iraq where it'll do more good for the country. (Nothing against Turkish, Mahan, or any other airline offering service to Iraq. Just looking at it from their perspective.)
The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
allegro From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 232 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5089 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 7): I would think that Iraq should have different priorities for spending money at the moment.
Airplanes are a necessary component of any modern economy. Can you imagine if your country did not have reliable service? This is as high a priority as any IMHO.
Ok .. I just heard that they are now looking at replacing some or all of the 787 orders with 77W's! They need the capacity now and are not able to wait for the 787. So, 10 77W's now with a possibility of 788's in the future.
Quoting cuban8 (Reply 11): Well, I would not say that Iraq is liberated!!
I would
Quoting Stitch (Reply 15): Like Nigeria, having long-range aircraft that can reach the capitals of your major oil-consuming customers helps you stay in contact and keep the black gold flowing out and the gold gold flowing in to fund those "different priorities".
Quoting usa330300 (Reply 19): Besides some of us still believe in American excellence, and liberty for all. We resist the European style socialist agenda in favor of individualism and self reliance
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5072 times:
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 8): Do they even have the technical expertise to operate these aircraft, wouldn't they be better buying secondhand B767s?
Seems like a waste of money better spent on reconstruction efforts.
I'm sure they will be getting a "helping hand" from Boeing..
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 12): A bit of a vanity purchase really, a couple of secondhand 767s or A340s would make more sense, when the country is still in a turbulent condition.
....Why is this a "vanity" purchase? They might be getting some excellent prices from Boeing, not to mention spares, training, etc.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 15): Like Nigeria, having long-range aircraft that can reach the capitals of your major oil-consuming customers helps you stay in contact and keep the black gold flowing out and the gold gold flowing in to fund those "different priorities".
AirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 1911 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
The problem I have, is that for most 'normal' airlines forecasting 5-10 years into the future is really hard, you don't know how the economy will develop, what competitors will emerge, what rival planes will be launched etc
For a country like Iraq, trying to forecast 2 years into the future is a nightmare. It's by no means fully stable now (3000 people a year murdered in Baghdad), and with the planned pullout of US troops within the next 2 years, who knows what will happen, if the likes of Iran or Syria intervene to maintain stability...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
Nice to see some signs of hope for their future. A solid domestic airline will certinly go a long way toward global assimilation. I say RR's under the wings.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved"
25 ju068: What is happening with Iraqi Airline now, what kind of planes and routes do they operate? Congrats on the great news, I am always happy when Boeing ge
26 Viscount724: I can't find this in Boeing's orders/deliveries data on their website. Where do you see this? I also can't find a Boeing press release which would no
27 WestWing: As I implied in my post, my source is in fact the Boeing orders/deliveries database on their website. Look for orders in December 2009 and you should
28 ebbuk: It will be interesting what engine they will select. The best one for the job? Depends what job? 1. Appease iraq's main donor? 2. Appease it's liberat
29 BA174: Iraqi would never fill 77Ws. I think they should have gone with the previous suggestion of second hand 767/A330s. What happened last time they ordere
30 Amexair: I don't know about Iraq but I can tell you something about Ethiopian. Ethiopia maybe an impoverished nation but Ethiopian, contrary to what you might
31 PacificClipper: Agreed. And ET learned its practices well as I believe TW provided Ethiopian with training in the 1960s. That was a long time ago but service standar
32 YVRLTN: Iraqi did lease an ex AC 767 200, last photo in the db is November 2006. From what I can tell it was only used on government VIP flights however and m
33 PEET7G: It is totally obvious that you have no idea about the operations of Ethiopian as an airline, the operation they managed to build out of their hub air
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And if that's true, don't you think these planes would eventually pay for themselves many times over?
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