Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1016 times:
Hi everybody. I was wondering if this numbers about some curious facts in the aviation are accurate or not. The source is the website of a TV Channel, and we all know how the media usually screw up this things.Personally i have serious doubts about some of this numbers, specially in the accidents numbers, I'll think the number of crashes during landing and take off phases are much more than 50 %, for mentioning one.
Any thoughts ?
Here is a transcript of their statements :
• Since the creation of the 737 model, 12 billion passengers were transported with this
model ( all series ), this is two times the population of the planet.
• 50 % of all the aviation accidents occurs in the Take off or Landing phase.
• The Passenger / kilometer equation says an aircraft it's 10 times safer than a car.
• A paint-less 747 weights 1000 lbs less than one 747 fully painted.
• The longest scheduled flight today is LAX to SIN, a 18 hours flight with a distance of
about 7600 nm.
• A 737 lands or Take off each 4.6 seconds somewhere, with 1.250 737 's flying at any
moment of the day.
• 90% of accidents are the result of human error, and 85 % directly pilot error.
• After several experimentation FAA says 90 seconds is the time to evac a cabin when a
fuel feed-ed fire erupts outside.
• A 747 with all engines out can glide 15 kms ahead for each 1 km down in altitude
• Since their creation in 1967, the NTSB can't find the cause of three accidents only :
January 6, 1969, Convair 440 crashed near Bradford- PA, November 14, 1970, DC-9
crashed in Huntington-VA, and March 13, 1973 Convair 440 crashed in Bishop-CA.
• Between 1979 and 1994 more than 80 planes have encountered volcanic ashes in flight,
with 7 cases were the engines go out . The First Symposium related with volcanic ashes
and aviation safety was in 1991.
• In average only 1 of 15 runway overruns have fatalities
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 53 Reply 1, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 976 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • The longest scheduled flight today is LAX to SIN, a 18 hours flight with a distance of
about 7600 nm.
Longest segment is SIN-EWR operated by SQ.
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • 50 % of all the aviation accidents occurs in the Take off or Landing phase
Strictly speaking only 35% of the accidents occur in the takeoff or landing phase. However if you look at takeoff/initial climb, initial approach, final approach and landing phase the percentage increases to 62%.
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • A 747 with all engines out can glide 15 kms ahead for each 1 km down in altitude
A 747 will glide roughtly 3 NM for each 1000' of altitude lost. So, in your case 1km is 3274 feet, a 747 would glide just about 10NM.
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • After several experimentation FAA says 90 seconds is the time to evac a cabin when a
fuel feed-ed fire erupts outside.
The FAA criteria for aircraft certification is 90 seconds with half the exits blocked and in the dark.
HapppyLandings From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 952 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • 50 % of all the aviation accidents occurs in the Take off or Landing phase
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 1): Strictly speaking only 35% of the accidents occur in the takeoff or landing phase. However if you look at takeoff/initial climb, initial approach, final approach and landing phase the percentage increases to 62%.
I would venture to guess that number would be even higher if you counted only the past 15 years or so. In flight disasters are very rare now a days, the exclusion being CFIT which is still quite frequent in developing nations, using old equipment.
That 62%, from what year to present does that figure represent?
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • A paint-less 747 weights 1000 lbs less than one 747 fully painted.
That would be average, AA for example uses less than average while Air India would probably exceed 1000lbs on a single isle plane. Especially with the previous livery.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 3822 posts, RR: 28 Reply 3, posted (2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 919 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • Since the creation of the 737 model, 12 billion passengers were transported with this
model ( all series ), this is two times the population of the planet.
That sounds about right.
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): • 90% of accidents are the result of human error, and 85 % directly pilot error.
I think this is old data. I believe the 90% being human error, but in the last few years maintenance errors have overtaken pilot errors.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 7102 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 898 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): The longest scheduled flight today is LAX to SIN, a 18 hours flight with a distance of about 7600 nm.
SQ's EWR-SIN nonstop is the longest current nonstop, 8285 nm. LAX-SIN is 7621 nm. Both routes are operated by A340-500 in all-business class configuration.
When DL starts ATL-BOM soon with 777-200LR (ATL-BOM is replacing the current JFK-BOM service) I think that will be the 3rd longest nonstop at 7395 nm.
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 53 Reply 5, posted (2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 880 times:
Quoting HapppyLandings (Reply 2): That 62%, from what year to present does that figure represent?
Source is the Boeing Statistical Summary, published July 2008. The document is a statistical analysis of all worldwide commercial jet aircraft (heavier than 60,000lbs) from 1959-2007.
HapppyLandings From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 867 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 5): Source is the Boeing Statistical Summary, published July 2008. The document is a statistical analysis of all worldwide commercial jet aircraft (heavier than 60,000lbs) from 1959-2007.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 766 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 5): Source is the Boeing Statistical Summary, published July 2008. The document is a statistical analysis of all worldwide commercial jet aircraft (heavier than 60,000lbs) from 1959-2007.
Many thanks to you and all the others for your posts. Another question, this Boeing Stats Summary, where can i get a copy of that ? Is it available on the web ?
Thanks in advance.
HapppyLandings From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 760 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 7): Another question, this Boeing Stats Summary, where can i get a copy of that ? Is it available on the web ?
Thanks in advance.
Luv2cattlecall From United States, joined Sep 2007, 1082 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 687 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
• Since the creation of the 737 model, 12 billion passengers were transported with this
model ( all series ), this is two times the population of the planet.
True...but if you fly a round trip, you count as two pax....If you're fly a WN flight from ORF-MDW, stay on that same plane, and continue to LAS..then you're also two pax each way. I can't even imagine how many people a deadheading crew member would equate to over the course of a year!
"Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient" -Bill Gates
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 680 times:
Quote: • Since their creation in 1967, the NTSB can't find the cause of three accidents only :
January 6, 1969, Convair 440 crashed near Bradford- PA, November 14, 1970, DC-9
crashed in Huntington-VA, and March 13, 1973 Convair 440 crashed in Bishop-CA.
Technically, the reason is known, as the crew descended below the minimum altitude. As to exactly why they allowed this to happen it is not known; however, there are certainly other accidents of this type where the reason behind "crew error" isn't known.
In this case, a TWA 727-132 went into a barrel roll and dived from 39,000 feet to 5,000 feet in 63 seconds. Interestingly, the captain had experience as an acrobatic stunt pilot and successfully pulled the plane out of the dive. The CVR was erased, and only guessing could be done as to the actual reason that the slats were extended in flight.
There is still great controversy over this one. The copilot is heard saying repeatedly, in an Arabic prayer, "I place myself in God's hands" as the plane dives into the ocean. No mechanical fault or other reason for its fall from the sky has been determined; hence the belief that someone in the cockpit deliberately crashed the plane. However, nothing can be definitively proven.
Also, perhaps a fellow a.netter familiar with Airliners or Airways magazines can help me out on this: there was an article several years ago on unsolved aviation accidents. I believe the other two crashes - sadly, both Convair 440's, are mentioned, as well as several others. If I had the time I'd go look through my dozens of magazines...I wish there was a database catalog on all those articles!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 560 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11): In this case, a TWA 727-132 went into a barrel roll and dived from 39,000 feet to 5,000 feet in 63 seconds.
Certainly that is one hell of a dive !! The fact that only the slat was missing and the aircraft survive that sort of overstress shows how strong the 727's are.
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11): There is still great controversy over this one.
Yes, i saw a TV program ( Mayday of NatGeo i believe, i have the chapter recorded ) about this one, according that program some people blame the copilot for the crash ( committing suicide ), but there's no concrete evidence about that.
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11): If I had the time I'd go look through my dozens of magazines...I wish there was a database catalog on all those articles!!
Well if you decide in the future to build up a database some day, i gladly contribute with almost 700 pictures of all the jetliners gone for ever since my year of birth, 1973....and free of charge !!!! ( Of course...i don't have the copyright of all that pics )
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 3822 posts, RR: 28 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 528 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11): In this case, a TWA 727-132 went into a barrel roll and dived from 39,000 feet to 5,000 feet in 63 seconds. Interestingly, the captain had experience as an acrobatic stunt pilot and successfully pulled the plane out of the dive. The CVR was erased, and only guessing could be done as to the actual reason that the slats were extended in flight.
Is this the one where the rumour mill thought that the pilot/copilot were experimenting with partial flap deployment in flight but inhibited the slats by pulling the CB?
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 483 times:
Quote: Is this the one where the rumour mill thought that the pilot/copilot were experimenting with partial flap deployment in flight but inhibited the slats by pulling the CB?
That's the one!
Ironic if that's true - the man responsible for causing it is the same man that saved it - very few other pilots have ANY acrobatic experience.
2H4 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 7290 posts, RR: 54 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 464 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 3): Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
• 90% of accidents are the result of human error, and 85 % directly pilot error.
I think this is old data. I believe the 90% being human error, but in the last few years maintenance errors have overtaken pilot errors.
But maintenance errors are human error, too...they're just not pilot error.
Virtually every accident involves human error somewhere along the chain of events, whether it's faulty directions from a controller, or improper deicing on the ground, or bad quality control at the engine factory, or improper labeling of cargo.
The only types of accidents I can think of that positively cannot be attributed to human error are those involving animal contact (birdstrikes, deer on runway, etc) or terrorist acts.
Unforecast or invisible weather phenomena can be argued, but then again, it's the duty of the flight crew to plan for and properly manage wx risks.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 3822 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 418 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15): Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
• 90% of accidents are the result of human error, and 85 % directly pilot error.
I think this is old data. I believe the 90% being human error, but in the last few years maintenance errors have overtaken pilot errors.
But maintenance errors are human error, too...they're just not pilot error.
That was my point...it's still 90% human error, but it's not 85% pilot error.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15): The only types of accidents I can think of that positively cannot be attributed to human error are those involving animal contact (birdstrikes, deer on runway, etc) or terrorist acts.
I would include unforseable design failures there as well. There are foreseeable design flaws, but there are also functionally unforseable ones. Whether they can/should be forseen is open for some debate, but I have a tough time calling an "error" something that was based on best engineering at the time and all engineers would have agreed on.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15): Unforecast or invisible weather phenomena can be argued, but then again, it's the duty of the flight crew to plan for and properly manage wx risks.
If they're unforecast and invisible, how can they manage them?
Sponsor Message: 
From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 85 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3746 posts, 
From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 557 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 7102 posts, 
From United States, joined Sep 2007, 1082 posts, 