Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5539 times:
I am travelling with my wife, 2 year old daughter and our new arrival, who is 2 weeks old to the US from Heathrow later this year. I booked 3 seats earlier this year and I rang AA over the weekend to book my new arrival’s ticket.
AA advertises that their on lap baby tickets are calculated as 10% of the advertised fare, plus taxes and fees. On their website over the weekend, the same flights I am already booked on were a fare of £355 plus £92 in taxes and fees – so I assumed by new daughter’s ticket would be £35.50 plus £92.
But no – they carve out a huge amount of the fare as the fuel surcharge and include it within the taxes and fees charged at 100%, and as a result and charged my 7 pound in weight daughter £14 for the fare, £92 taxes and fees, and £163 fuel surcharge!!!
Not only is this a complete rip off, it goes against how they advertise the fare calculation. I have tried talking to AA Gold, reservations in the UK and US, and via e-mail, and have hit brick walls. I am so incensed about this and AA’s attitude of “well we all rip off our customers like this, so it’s ok”, I’m tempted to ask the Office of Fair Trading in the UK to investigate this as I can’t get anybody at American to discuss this properly with me.
Does anybody have any idea of who would listen to me within AA first before I do this?
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 15668 posts, RR: 49 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
That doesn't sound right, as fuel surcharges on USA carriers are internal to the fare, not external, but are you positive that you are reading the fare rules for tickets originating in the UK and not the USA? Different country, different rules.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5455 times:
AA are telling me, and this is always how they were calculated with my elder daughter, that the ticket is calculated as 10% of the published fare, plus taxes and fees. On AA.com the advertised fare is £355 plus £92 taxes and fees - so why for my daughter should a majority of the fare be split out as a fuel surcharge and included within the taxes and fees at 100%?
DLPMMM From United States, joined Apr 2005, 2312 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5333 times:
If you would have clicked on the underlined "Total Fare Per Person" before you bought your ticket, this fare description show up in a new window:
International Travel (including Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands)
Fares include:
Base Fare and Surcharges
Fares exclude:
September 11th Security Fee of $2.50 per U.S. enplanement
Airport passenger facility charges (PFCs) of up to $18 roundtrip
Other government taxes and fees (including U.S. government excise tax) of up to $180 based on destination; total may vary slightly based upon currency exchange rate at time of purchase
U.S. government excise tax is a user tax to pay for airport construction and airway safety and operations.
Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5321 times:
Exactly!!! The Fare includes the fuel surcharge, so therefore my daughters ticket should be calulcated at 10% of the fare AND surcharge (fuel), plus 100% of the taxes and fees. AA are moving the surcharge into the taxes and fees bucket, and charging my daughers ticket as 10% of the fare plus 100% of the surcharge, taxes and fees.
DLPMMM From United States, joined Apr 2005, 2312 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5185 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 4): Exactly!!! The Fare includes the fuel surcharge, so therefore my daughters ticket should be calulcated at 10% of the fare AND surcharge (fuel), plus 100% of the taxes and fees. AA are moving the surcharge into the taxes and fees bucket, and charging my daughers ticket as 10% of the fare plus 100% of the surcharge, taxes and fees.
Regrettably, the USA airlines have started following the lead of their European and Asian counterparts and instituting fuel surcharges (to charge additional monies for FF tickets primarily).
Good luck with yur attempt at redress, but I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on. Airlines could theoretically make parents buy a seat for the child . There is no law to determine that an airline has to allow a lap child, much less how much an airline can charge for that lap child. Fares can also be changes without notice prior to ticketing, and your lap child has not been ticketed yet.
You have been quoted a price for the lap ticket for the child. You have the option to either pay that amount, buy a seat for the child, ot not take the child over the Atlantic. If you look at the fare rules for a lap child, I am sure that the 100% fuel surcharge add on is there in black and white.
Here is what the AA website says:
Fares
International (outside the United States/Canada and Hawaii/Puerto Rico/U.S. Virgin Islands)
For fare purposes...
an infant is defined as a passenger under 2 years of age
a child is defined as a passenger 2-11 years of age.
Availability of fares for infants and children varies depending on your travel plans. Additionally, AA.com is currently unable to book a reservation for an infant traveling internationally as a lap child. When traveling outside the U.S., infants under age two who do not pay a fare may be required to have a ticket. In addition, taxes may be assessed which can be significant. Please contact Reservations for further information assistance.
I don't see anywhere that they advertise 10% of the adult fare as the lap child fare (although we all know that the lap child fare is 10% plus surcharges and taxes). They say to call AA reservations in order to get a fare an book it.
Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5056 times:
The issue isn't the cost - it's the fact they are misleading how they advertise how the fare is calculated that is frustrating. Plus, how can charging an on lap child, under two and without a seat, almost the same as an adult with a seat? Also their call centre kept telling me the Fuel Surcharge was actually a government imposed tax to justify how they were calculating the fare, rather than AA imposed.
Ckfred From United States, joined Apr 2001, 2858 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4882 times:
It could be that fares are calculated differently in the U.S. and the U.K. It could be that in the U.S., the fare surcharge is included in the base fare, while in the U.K., the surcharge is incuded with taxes and fees.
So, the problem is that the website is quoting information that is accurate for the U.S., while it's calculating the fares based on U.K. pricing.
You might try pricing the same family in U.S. dollars on a U.S. departure and see if the fare comes out the same.
DLPMMM From United States, joined Apr 2005, 2312 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4805 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 7): The issue isn't the cost - it's the fact they are misleading how they advertise how the fare is calculated that is frustrating.
I don't see where they are advertising how the fare is calculated, much less being misleading about it.
Please show me the misleading advert and maybe I'll agree with you.
Contrails From United States, joined Oct 2000, 1446 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4774 times:
I fail to see any "exploitation" here. You may have a legitimate issue with how AA advertises their fares, and you may have another issue with how fares are proportioned for infants, but there is no "exploitation" going on.
When you get to the AA ticket counter at LHR ask the agent to review the fare. If you explain why you think it's unfair you may get a voucher or maybe even a partial rebate. It's worth a try.
Charles79 From United States, joined Mar 2007, 633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4764 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 7): Plus, how can charging an on lap child, under two and without a seat, almost the same as an adult with a seat?
I know it sounds as ridiculous but experience tells me that when parents travel with an infant (usually weighing less than 30 pounds) they bring gear for that infant that can weigh nearly as much as a adult.
My partner tells me that this happens on every flight with them on Air France. A couple shows up with an infant; each parent has 2 bags (the maximum free allowance) but then they have a stroller, a car seat, AND an extra bag for all the things they need for their child. All that extra gear costs time/money to check-in/tag, handle, load unto the aircraft, transport, and then off-load at the other end. I know that your infant fare doesn't sound fair but airlines have learned their lesson the hard way and now can't afford to transport all these bags for free.
Bond007 From United States, joined Mar 2005, 4353 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4676 times:
I guess I'll the join the others that ask where it says exactly, that the infant's fare is 10% of the advertised price ... surcharges and/or fees, taxes included?
AFAIK in the USA, there are no regulations against having a so-called fuel surcharge as part of the fare calculation ... just that it must be included in the advertised fare. This is not the case in other countries, since I am quoting a USDOT rule. Unless AA specifically told you that the fare would be 10% of the US advertised fare, including ALL surcharges/fee, (and I don't see that anywhere on aa.com), then they can charge almost anything they wish as an extra surcharge.
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 7): Also their call centre kept telling me the Fuel Surcharge was actually a government imposed tax to justify how they were calculating the fare, rather than AA imposed.
Well, of course, that would be incorrect and misleading.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4655 times:
Contrails, how else would you describe charging £269 for a 3 month old baby travelling on their parents lap, when the parents seat including all fares, fees and taxes are £400? My daughter won't have a meal, their own seat etc.
My issue is they say at the call centre that her ticket is calculated as 10% of the fare (base fare plus surcharges) plus 100% of government taxes and fees. However they are splitting out over 65% of the base fare as a fuel surcharge and adding that to the government taxes and fees, and therefore charging 100% of the fuel surcharge.
Why not just make the fare zero, and rename the fare a fuel surcharge? They are not far from it already...
Rwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4632 times:
Charles79 - as I have said, I have no issue with paying, just how they say they are calculating the fare. They should say that it is 10% of the fare, plus 100% of the fuel surcharge, plus 100% of the government imposed taxes and fees.
However, how can they justify two thirds of the fare as being the surcharge? That's the majority of the overall cost!
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4610 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 7): The issue isn't the cost - it's the fact they are misleading how they advertise how the fare is calculated that is frustrating.
The issue is the cost, as that is the reason this thread was started. If you don't want to pay the AA fare take your business elsewhere. If we start thread after thread about how airlines calculate fares this website would be chalk full of fare bases, ticketing restrictions, and fuel surcharges. What AA is doing is not underhanded nor is it sneaky. They are charging along the same exact lines as BA, VS, and a score of others that fly from the UK to the US.
Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
AA advertises that their on lap baby tickets are calculated as 10% of the advertised fare, plus taxes and fees.
If the above statement is true AA is the first airline in history to "advertise" infant fares.
Bond007 From United States, joined Mar 2005, 4353 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4578 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 14): My issue is they say at the call centre that her ticket is calculated as 10% of the fare (base fare plus surcharges) plus 100% of government taxes and fees.
Then the answer is simple, right?
Either,
The call center was correct, and the fare is calculated as 10% of fare (and that fare includes all non-govermment imposed taxes/fees) , in which case you paid the wrong amount ...
OR,
the call center got it wrong, and it's only 10% of the BASE fare, plus all the other surcharges/fees/taxes.
It sounds like apart from the original call, where they said it was based upon an all-inclusive fare, everyone else at AA said it wasn't, and you should be paying the surcharge.
BTW, this is one of the reasons for the surcharge, right, and why it's not included in the base fare ... whenever anything is a percentage of the 'base fare', they can add whatever they like. This is the same for companies that have contract discounts with certain airlines - they may have a contract that allows the employees to get 15% off base fare ... which sounds great until you realize that 15% of the base fare is almost negligible.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
Isitsafenow From United States, joined Feb 2004, 3756 posts, RR: 21 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 days ago) and read 4555 times:
Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter): lap baby tickets are calculated as 10% of the advertised fare, plus taxes and fees
I would think a lawyer would demand AA to define "advertised fare". In a computer, say Sabre, I would bet there are at least 50 fares with fare basis listed between said cities.
Would the advertised fare be whatever fare the carrier wishes to use, the fare the adult bought their ticket for, the low fare in the newspaper or on the airlines website??.........the list is endless.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Bond007 From United States, joined Mar 2005, 4353 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 days ago) and read 4522 times:
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 19): I would think a lawyer would demand AA to define "advertised fare".
Well, I think that's already been done, for ths USA anyway:
"The DOT’s advertising standards apply to all forms of communication, including traditional media, such as newspapers and television; new media, such as the world wide web and e-mail; and specialized media, such as press releases, billboards, and trade publications such as the Official Airline Guide."
"As a general matter, the DOT requires all advertising to clearly state the full price that a consumer must pay for the advertised services. In particular, only certain taxes and fees can be listed separately f
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