EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11917 times:
According to their annual results issued yeaterday, Aer Lingus have asked Boeing and Airbus for proposals for the replacement of the long haul fleet (currently all A330s). Order should be announced in Q2 2007.
Quote:
An order for 14 Long Haul aircraft will be placed in the 2nd Qrt of 2007. The aircraft being evaluated are the B787 and A350XWB.
Impossible to tell what will be ordered in my opinion, as Aer Lingus have been looking at this order for a while but a few things got in the way. Hopefully there will be no further o/s delays! I would not be surprised to see a few more A330s being ordered aswell to cover themselves in the meantime. There are two more A330s arriving in June and 4 more A320s arriving this year.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, RR: 37 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11332 times:
Well, this is interesting! 2Q 07 is only a little over two weeks away. I agree that the A350 really needs to win this; it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it could, but my money's still on the 787. Most rumours I have heard to date focus on this; it's available sooner and it's cheaper.
Of course, Airbus's big advantage is that the A330 is the "in situ" aircraft, so they can provide a deal which will provide A330s in the meantime. Even A340s are not out of the question; although DUB's runway is short, the A340 could still fly east coast routes, even ORD. It could also do DXB. Since two of the new routes, MCO and IAD/BWI are on the east coast (or as good as!), the A340 could have its uses and CCQ between the 330/340 should not be a problem.
However, don't forget that a 787 order doesn't preclude A330s/340s being added in the meantime.
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3482 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11299 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9): my money's still on the 787. Most rumours I have heard to date focus on this; it's available sooner and it's cheaper.
Of course, Airbus's big advantage is that the A330 is the "in situ" aircraft, so they can provide a deal which will provide A330s in the meantime
I doubt EI would be able to get 787 much earlier than A350 with huge backlog of orders for 787. EI cannot wait for either 787 or A350 so they need to take more A330s anyway. If Airbus offers a good combo deal they will get this order. Price will be very important imo.
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11233 times:
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5153 posts, RR: 49 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11176 times:
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11179 times:
To be honest, I would like to see some Boeings back in the EI fleet, Im sick of looking at those A330s! But from a passenger point of view I think I would prefer the A350. So Im not that bothered which one they order.
Adh214 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 353 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11082 times:
How old are the A330's? Doesn't it seem a little early to start talking about a replacement even if they can't be delivered until 2014.
Or is Aer Lingus doing this now because they know Airbus needs a boost and they can get a better price.
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11068 times:
Quoting Adh214 (Reply 17): How old are the A330's? Doesn't it seem a little early to start talking about a replacement even if they can't be delivered until 2014.
Or is Aer Lingus doing this now because they know Airbus needs a boost and they can get a better price.
Andrew
Original A333 batch was delivered in 1994, followed the A332 fleet in 1999/2000/2001
Average age of A333 fleet is coming up to 12.5yrs
Average age of A332 fleet is 7yrs
1 new A333 and 1 A332 will be delivered in May/June of this yr
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5153 posts, RR: 49 Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10911 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): I would actually like to see half A350 and half B787 but this may not be feasable.
There fleet is not large enough to make a split fleet financially profitable. It's better to go with one or the other.
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10911 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): I would actually like to see half A350 and half B787 but this may not be feasable.
Would look nice but would be silly from a fleet-planning, maint and crew training point of view.
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10887 times:
They seat 269 - 327 on their A330s and are a growing airline. It's more like 787 will be too small for them.
[Edited 2007-03-13 15:02:06]
25 OA260: The way things are going at DUB they will need bigger AC than the A350 on some USA routes!!! Long may it last !!!
26 Clickhappy: The 787 is too small for Aer Lingus? Hahahahahaha. But just right for smaller flag carriers, right? Little airlines like Qantas, Air New Zealand, Sing
27 Danny: Lazy and with very little knowledge of Aer Lingus. EI flies mainly low fare passengers. There is no economic point for them to open 3rd daily DUB-JFK
28 Clickhappy: So that is why they upsized from the 747 to the A330, right? More capacity?
29 EI321: They downsized from the 747 to the 767 and then upsized to the A330. Anyway, they are a very differet airline now, and are more focused at selling mo
30 Danny: 747-100 was not particularly modern aircraft don't you agree? EI, Ireland and the whole industry was at very different point to where they are now. D
31 OA260: At the time when EI got rid of the 747's things were very different in Ireland !!!! The whole country has changed , I arrived in Ireland 10 years ago
32 Clickhappy: So you had a major economic boom and now you fly smaller aircraft The 767 left the fleet before the 747.
34 Toulouse: Apparanetly so. Get your facts right. Find out a bit about the whole economic environment at that time in Ireland and Aer Lingus. What's your point?
35 EI321: The plan was to replace the 747-100 fleet (only three of them) with new 767-300ERs. Two 767s were aquired, but the 767 plan was quickly abandoned in
36 Cba: It would not be economical to fly the A340 from DUB to the US East Coast and DXB. The A330 has the range for these routes, and as a twin is much more
37 Clickhappy: Man you Irish guys are touchy My point is a boom would mean bigger aircraft, not smaller. And I was simply pointing out what a lame comment it was tha
38 OA260: Well some people would disagree but Ireland has been very good to me and I am financially secure for life now , so if you work and use your money wis
40 Toulouse: Yes, we are pretty hot-blooded! So beware... Invaid point, as yes Ireland has experienced a major economic boom (if you have read The Economist and o
41 Pilot21: Sorry A321, that wasn't the outright idea, the B767's were acquired for the DUB-LAX direct route that was suppose to be launched in 1991. However, th
42 Scouseflyer: They haven't actually signed for them yet........
44 Cba: For the first time in history, people are emmigrating TO Ireland and not the other way around!
45 OA260: I think I heard that last year the population of Ireland reached the level of that prior to the Famine!!!! Amazing. Just shows you how many perished!
46 EIBoston: I think you may be wide of the mark there! There were almost 8 million in Ireland pre famine. It's nowhere near that now.
47 Khobar: And Boeing laughed all the way to the bank. Brilliant!
48 EI321: Er, what is this the famine thread! Not at those discounts they didnt![Edited 2007-03-13 16:38:12]
49 Poitin: Well, It is about time DM got to buying aircraft. As for the EI annual results, DM has proved himself to be a better CEO than even I expected. I alwa
50 Lemurs: I'm sure they did. No one gives anything away for free, and you certainly don't give away several hundred airplanes for free. Despite the distasteful
51 MCOflyer: I think the 789 may be perfect for them. It has the range to offer them destinations on both the US and middle east without sacrificing loads. Boeing
52 EI321: I would like to see some green 787s also, but Boeing will have to offer a good deal. I wonder were they pissed when EI did not order 777s or 737NG's
53 Lemurs: If their money is as green as their airplanes, it would be bad business practice to be pissed at a potential customer.
54 DfwRevolution: SQ simply has an LOI for the A350 XWB. They are not yet a firm customer. Even with the huge 787 backlog, EI could likely obtain delivery slots 12-18
55 Danny: Would have to be payload restricted to get out of DUB. And offers nothing to EI over A330 which they already have.
56 Bobski: I agree with the people who have said this order is Airbus's to lose. Aer Lingus made the decision a few years ago to have an all-Airbus fleet, so Air
58 EI321: Not to mention more expensive, and higher CASMs on nearly all of EI's routes. Aer Lingus wont order 777s.
59 MAH4546: Try again. Think San Francisco, Miami, and Philadelphia.
60 Danny: Sure, but EI seems to be managed quite well recently so I would not expect to see irrational decisions. As I said before, price offered will be impor
62 EI321: They were considered, but San Jose, Orlando and Baltimore have emerged as the strongest possibilities this week.
63 MAH4546: I doubt that will happen unless the US does not agree to a new bilatteral. If a new bilatteral is not agreed upon, Aer Lingus will have no choice and
65 Cba: It wouldn't make much sense for them to operate both the 787 and A350, but on the other hand, SQ has ordered competing aircraft before... they operat
66 EI321: Commonality is more important in a small fleet.
67 B707Stu: I would be very surprised by an EI 787 order. My sense is that, not just in aviation but in almost every industry, it's done Ireland the world of goo
68 Kaitak: Commonality and being "pro-European" are small issues, particularly if you get an aircraft which turns out not to be the right one. I would not be at
71 LTU932: OK, thanks. I just wanted clarification on this (though I'm sure SJO wouldn't mind having nonstop service to DUB or SNN ).
72 Vega: Is this a published fact from some interview or press release?
73 Pe@rson: Let’s return to the days when Aer Lingus received money after money after money from the Irish government. There was no incentive to become profitab
74 Shamrock350: Those days are gone and EI is a different airline! In the first few years of FR they were similar to EI they even had an FF program now the two of the
75 OA260: I had forgotten that LOL.... those BAC 1-11's from Luton!!!! Didnt they also used to have a expensive office in Bond Street London!!! My how they hav
76 EI321: Did they even have a type of 'first class' at one stage? Lucky they did not go under.
77 Shamrock350: While listening to the conference DM has said that Airbus and Boeing are "very focused" and have "been very active" about the new order and its "wide
78 BestWestern: End Q2 is three months away As I have also said for years... The 787-8 is perfect for EI - allowing them to focus on building frequency on the curren
79 EI321: Does this indicate that he has been told that GE will indeed be available on the A350?
80 Pe@rson: Thank goodness they did change: European aviation would be far different and we wouldn't have such low fares or freedom or possibility to travel almo
81 Shamrock350: DM (or one of the others) said "RR in particular and GE of course" Mentioned both engines but nothing more on it. It's starting to look interesting a
82 Pe@rson: Yep. What a terrific time to buy! Think of the negociation possibilities! Just like you can occasionally negociate 50% off in a hotel during a very q
83 Shamrock350: It's going through what looks like a re-branding at the moment. The cheap yellow and red image is going and the older design with a modern twist is a
84 OA260: I cant remember this is my earliest memory of them http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...=2&prev_id=1168508&next_id=1107589 I know they used to have
85 Pe@rson: It's had at least two personalities for a few years now. When Aer Fungus was charging £200+.
86 OA260: But looks like its back to normal now thank god !!! I hated the tacky yellow stuff. They were GBP. 79 and it was booked in T class!!!!
87 Shamrock350: Yep but it hasn't done too bad for them. Looks like they are now turning the image towards the old Irish style with a modern twist such as the aerlin
88 Pe@rson: Pah! Think you missed the 0 off. Good good. Shame that its website has not yet been updated to reflect that change. The last time I flew EI - I haven
89 OA260: No i still have the ticket!!! I save all my airline tickets. FR are not that cheap!!! Return to Manchester would have cost me Eur200 last week . Luxa
90 Pe@rson: Of course they're not. That is why a lot of business revolves around perception. A lot of people perceive Ryanair to be the cheapest (and Southwest i
91 BestWestern: exactly - and its what FR are excellent at... excellent.
92 Khobar: We keep hearing this over and over - perhaps you have the actual numbers?
93 EBJ1248650: Not to bash Airbus ... and I hope the A350 pans out well for them ... I believe ordering the 787 in the near term will insure they get the new jets th
94 AC747: I flew to Stansted with FR from DUB in Business Class once ! Must have been in ' 91 (if memory serves me). Full breakfast, newspapers and champagne o
95 Pred02: What's wrong with the A330 in their current configuration? Aer Lingus hasn't been faring all too well lately with Ryanair putting a bid to buy them o
96 OA260: To be honest I dont think Airbus is as badly hit as people think. Sure they have had major cock ups with the A380 and the A380F but there are plenty
97 Pe@rson: No one, unless they're inside, will be able to state the actual percentage: it's a closely-guarded secret. But from what I have read - no, not on A.n
98 Ei2ksea: On the first point - this RFP has come just after EI announced their results which show that things a quite healthy at the company. The opportunistic
99 BestWestern: Actual numbers never released for any major deal.... however According to catalog prices, the massive order theoretically is valued at more than $9 b
100 EI321: Nothing but it is not an eternal option. Apparently in the region of $19m per aircraft, not from airliners.net.
101 Pe@rson: Source? The actual figures are always very closely-guarded.
102 BestWestern: More like $30m, but nobody knows... however, it was a buyers market, airbus in front for the first time ever, boeing hurting big time.... the variabl
103 OA260: I heard that from an American source also . So it could be correct.
104 EI321: Not as closely guarded as they should be. Its not a source on the internet so I cant post you a link. A few things to remember though. Back then, the
105 BestWestern: Tag price 9bn Sale price $2.8bn No Way.... I did an article search on EBSCO and Proquest from 2002, and none of the trade press have an amount, with t
106 EI321: A 42% discount is not even a big discount in normal situations.
107 EI737NG: Should EI not be also looking at the long term replacement of A320 given that govt's have been talking about taxing airlines and or passengers in orde
108 Khobar: In the case of Ryanair, you're correct - it's not that closely guarded. Ryanair's own filings show your figures to be incorrect. What's more interest
109 EI321: Do you have them, cause Id really like to know what it was.
110 Danny: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?sec=download&ref=2006 Financial Statements prepared according to IFRS. Property, plant and equipment are stat
111 AirNZ: LOL!!! had to re-read that a few times.......could have sworn you were talking about BA there!
112 VC10DC10: Well, the one in full Aer Lingus livery looks fantastic, but the EuroWhite example is a little bland IMHO... Um, yeah. Two things: 1. Aer Lingus's ru
113 EI321: I think this is overrated. Firstly, both are sold in dollars. And the respective manufacturers have to buy from suppliers accross the globe, which pr
114 FlyinHigh: Are Aer Lingus upgrading the business class interiors of the current A330 fleet? If so, when? I am flying at the end of July JFK-DUB and was hoping th
115 Shamrock350: Two new A330s will have cocoon seats but not fully flat. EI-DUZ and EI-DOU are the A330s to have the new seats. The rest of the fleet are getting a s
116 NYC777: Boeing listed a UFO order of 15 787s tody. I wonder if it is EI?
117 FlyinHigh: Thanks for the reply Shamrock, will the seats be replaced by the end of July?
118 Kaitak: I doubt it, although it's not impossible. There are other airlines looking for this aircraft as well. Also, the airline has apparently just issued it
119 Shamrock350: They arrive in May/June so if you are lucky enough to get either of the two aircraft (watch out for EI-DUO and EI-DUZ) you will have the new "cocoon"
120 FlyinHigh: Hmmmmm. I've flown on those seats. Could be a lot better. I was hoping that they would update these seats also. Thanks for your replies Shamrock350
121 Shamrock350: No problem! I agree they are not the best but now the product is consistent. All the fleet have these now, with new IFE too and have only been upgrad
122 EI321: Hands up who smells a 787 order on the horizon?
123 Shamrock350: I have a feeling Boeing could have this one but only a week ago DM said that it was a close call. I expect Airbus is offering a great XWB deal with A
124 NYC777: It is possible for Boeing to offer them 767s or they can even broker a deal between AC who are getting rid of their A333 fleet and EI.
125 EI321: EI wont want 767s. Those A330s might be of interest (are they GE?), but EI might prefer A332s! 777s would be cool but they are big and expensive.
126 NYC777: AC 8 A333s are RR trents. I don't think they would go for the 777s. I was thinking it capacity wise and the timing might work out as well.
127 Shamrock350: I dont think 767s will be good for EI, last year when EI suffered a lot with A330 issues I would have loved them but if Boeing is offering 787/767s a
128 ClassicLover: Why would EI wait until 2014 for A350s? That's 7 years away...
129 Shamrock350: Why would they wait till 2013 for 787s when only getting 767s as interim? I can see Aer Lingus ordering A330s for the next few years in small number
130 ClassicLover: Oh hey, you're reading my mind - that is precisely what I was thinking. Great minds think alike - now let's hope it becomes a reality!
131 EI321: Thats what I want to see, but I suspect that Airbus will offer a great combo deal on both the A330 & A350. EI will obviously prefer GE, So we might h
132 ClassicLover: Airbus might offer a great combo deal, but it will come down to which aircraft is the better fit for EI operationally. I would bet that it will be th
133 Zeke: We have bumped up some of our RR 333s to 233t MTOW, would give the AC RR 333 enough range for EI is they did the engine mod. Would be a fairly cheap
134 Shamrock350: Didn't I tell you I'm psychic I have gone off the A350 for Aer Lingus and I really want the 787 ordered, it looks right for EI and I think it could p
135 Kaitak: I have no doubt that the A350 will be a good aircraft; indeed, a great aircraft. It will be better than the current A330, which as we all know is an e
136 ClassicLover: It wouldn't surprise me either, however I don't feel it's going to happen. The A350 still doesn't have a final definition set for example... Boeing h
137 EI321: I suspect It would not suit the airlines Cargo operations either. It would be awsome if EI bought some 767-400ERs, Sadly it wont happen unless they c
138 Kaitak: Well, the Paris Air Show is in the second quarter (or should we say the deuxieme quartier!) of the year, so it could happen; to my knowledge, EI has
139 EI321: Time is relevant however, as is lead in times, the two aircraft have an EIS date 5 years apart. I was just thinking of this, what are the odds of Boe
140 MotorHussy: I think that should read le deuxième trimestre. I think a quartier usually refers to a zone or region in a town I.E. Le quartier Latin en Paris. Per
141 BestWestern: Very Very slim that EI would take 767's in favour of 332's.... Whilst I firmly believe that the 787-8 is the perfect aircaft for EI (allowing them to
142 EI321: The A350 is hardly too large! The A350-900 should offer around 340 seats in two class (the A333s currently have 327), and the A350-800 should offer a
143 Sturdy: Airbus is going to get this 100%. I don't think Bertie will allow EI to buy boeing planes, "Buy your own products ". Damn, I would love to see EI colo
144 Kaitak: You may yet see EI flying 787s; Aer Lingus is now a (largely) privatised airline; the govt owns only 26% (or so) and does not have the power to stop t
145 EI321: I wonder does he know what an airbus is. In the late 80s When EI was govt owned (and at a time when the govt were receiving heavy EU susdidies) they
146 EI321: Absolutly no way! But one thing that might now be possible is an A319 from Cork to the states. Air Canada are doing it to England. Why are there so g
147 OA260: Yeah but there is ''diplomatic'' advice which will come to play in any order. It has happened before with other semi private airlines behind closed d
148 Kaitak: I've seen that on a few forums, but no source; more worryingly, however, they are also talking about an EI base at ... LHR! Not sure I like that idea
149 EI321: I just cant see it. What EI can do at LHR, BA can do bigger & better. Unless its STN! I wonder is there anypoint doing another base at the momenty, n
150 Thorben: My guess is that the A350XWB has good chances in this race. Aer Lingus could keep fleet commonality and they have time until their A330s need to go.
151 BestWestern: WIth the exception of JFK, ORD and BOS, all other EI routes are 3 or 4 weekly. To go daily, without adding too much capacity, EI needs to reduce the
152 EI321: EI policy in the last few years has been an increase in aircraft size and cheaper seats, replacing 737-500s & BAE146 with A320s. Neither the 787 or A3
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