Crberkley From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 61 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9601 times:
Does anyone have a clue if Jetblue has considered tackling the Hawaiian market? I would think if they can handle the distance between JFK-LGB and OAK-JFK...then naturally the Hawaiian market out of Long Beach/Oakland should be within reach....
Additionally, with the new code share with Aer Lingus...I would think that Hawaii would follow the natural progression of the airline?
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9586 times:
This has been discussed many times on here... the simple answer is 'no'.
Just because JetBlue can fly JFK-LGB & OAK (and BOS too!) doesn't mean it can fly across the oceans to HNL.
In addition, the Hawai'i market is traditionally low yielding, so I would say that HNL or OGG will not be on JetBlue's website anytime soon, unless it is through a codesharing agreement with another carrier.
Do you really think there are a lot of people traveling between DUB and HNL?
WMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9586 times:
No we aren't going to Hawaii anytime soon. Our 320s can't make it transcon with out stopping for fuel, so Hawaii would be out of the question unless we get mid air refuling capabilities.
Crberkley From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9518 times:
According to webflyer.com--
LGB-JFK is 2,460 Miles
LGB-BOS is 2,590 Miles
OAK-JFK is 2,570 Miles
and the one in question......LGB to HNL is 2,560 Miles.......am I missing something?
Now I am not a pilot and I am not familiar with aircraft range and winds over the pacific....but if logic serves, this seems like something Jet Blue could handle without breaking a sweat.
(I apologize by the way for me not catching this previously discussed thread)
ATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 658 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9494 times:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
FlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1631 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9474 times:
I thought that to fly to Hawaii planes need to be ETOPS certified. I don't that is the case with any of jetBLue' planes.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9378 times:
Quoting Crberkley (Reply 3): LGB-JFK is 2,460 Miles
LGB-BOS is 2,590 Miles
OAK-JFK is 2,570 Miles
and the one in question......LGB to HNL is 2,560 Miles.......am I missing something?
Yes.
99% of the time, JetBlue operates BOS & JFK to OAK/LGB without any problems. Occasionally, especially during the winter, tech stops are needed for fuel because a fully laden A320 doesn't always have the legs to safely make LGB or OAK. It is rare but it does happen. If they fly across the Pacific to Hawai'i, not much chance for a refueling stop, is there???!
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 5): I thought that to fly to Hawaii planes need to be ETOPS certified. I don't that is the case with any of jetBLue' planes.
Correct, although the certification could be initiated if they decided to fly this route. Which they won't.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3812 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9374 times:
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 5): I thought that to fly to Hawaii planes need to be ETOPS certified. I don't that is the case with any of jetBLue' planes.
I dont think that any are ETOPS certified, but they are all certified for extended overwater flying, IIRC. So it should not be too big of a deal to get them ETPOS'ed up?
That is of course in the unlikely situation that B6 would ever serve Hawaii.
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1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9342 times:
Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 4): Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
No, ever since NW retired their DC-10s, NW now flies A330s on MSP-HNL.
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ATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 658 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9292 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8): No, ever since NW retired their DC-10s, NW now flies A330s on MSP-HNL.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3024 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9209 times:
As mentioned here already, B6 has to make fuel stops during certain times of the year on its existing routes. They are rare, but regular enough that it could be a concern on a route with no feasible places to refuel.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9158 times:
Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 4): Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
No. My old neighbor was a A-320 F/O for UA & used A-320's in the off season on SFO-HNL. It could have been an A-319.
PITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9005 times:
OAK-Hilo is 2328nm. When it is not legal to dispatch to HNL due to winds or alternate considerations, 99% of the time it would be possible to dispatch to Hilo, then redispatch to HNL when getting close or tech stop in Hilo. Assuming getting ETOPS certified.
On those rare occasions where the forecast winds give the slightest hint of a problem making Hilo with adaquate fuel reserves, the flight would be cancelled. This would obviously be undesirable, but it doesn't stop Jetblue from serving Bermuda, where several flights have been cancelled in the past due to strong crosswind forecasts for the single runway.
That being said, there are many more lucrative markets for JetBlue to serve before Hawaii, and I would be really surprised to see such service.
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8978 times:
Quoting Richierich (Reply 1): In addition, the Hawai'i market is traditionally low yielding
That's an oft-repeated myth. Hawaii routes generate outstanding yields. That's why airlines such as NW have been adding 'disjoint' non-hub flights such as SFO-HNL into their mix. The cheapest fare even published (and as you know, getting the cheapest fare is always tough) typically has a 7.5 cent/mile yield.
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2810 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8938 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 11): No. My old neighbor was a A-320 F/O for UA & used A-320's in the off season on SFO-HNL. It could have been an A-319.
As far as I know, UA's A319s or A320s have never been certified for ETOPS.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6029 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8927 times:
Quoting Sllevin (Reply 13): That's an oft-repeated myth. Hawaii routes generate outstanding yields. That's why airlines such as NW have been adding 'disjoint' non-hub flights such as SFO-HNL into their mix. The cheapest fare even published (and as you know, getting the cheapest fare is always tough) typically has a 7.5 cent/mile yield.
NWA has been flying SFO-HNL probably close to the time you have been alive. I do not consider 7.5 cent/mile a good yield and Hawaii routes are considered low yield.
ZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1927 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8875 times:
Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 4): Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
As the two other posters wrote. UA 319 and NW 330. But also AC with the 343 and 333. The 343 served AC 33/34 (which I am going to fly this coming week ) quite regularly down to SYD, before this was converted to the 763, also my roommate has taken a 333 on AC 43/44 though this might not have been regular.
N770WD From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 123 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8846 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15): NWA has been flying SFO-HNL probably close to the time you have been alive. I do not consider 7.5 cent/mile a good yield and Hawaii routes are considered low yield.
For Q3 2006 NW's SFO-HNL average o/w fare (net of taxes) was $235 per passenger or 9.7c per mile. There are cheap fares advertised but generally speaking it's not a bad route since there is good walk-up business. In comparison for Q3 2006 B6's average net fare LGB-BOS was $197 or 7.6c per mile.
The real problem is range and ETOPS 180 -- get some A319s and endure 18 months of certification and they're in business. But there are better opportunities out there for B6 that don't require either (e.g. Caribbean, South America).
LAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8815 times:
J
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10): As mentioned here already, B6 has to make fuel stops during certain times of the year on its existing routes. They are rare, but regular enough that it could be a concern on a route with no feasible places to refuel.
Although JetBlue does have fuel stops on some of hte BOS-LGB, or BOS-OAK flights in the winter, very rarely is the jet stream that south near the latitudes of Hawaii. Regardless they may have problems because the CO flight from EWR to HNL had to stop at LAX to refuel because of the strong Jet stream.
I Guess JetBlue needs some A319's.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
Kjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 975 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8791 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 11): No. My old neighbor was a A-320 F/O for UA & used A-320's in the off season on SFO-HNL. It could have been an A-319.
Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 16): As the two other posters wrote. UA 319 and NW 330.
I don't believe United has ever sent an Airbus to Hawaii. Back in the 90s, UA sent a few 737s to HNL with the intent to start interisland, but that ultimately never occured.
I think the only Airbus equipment we're going to see in Hawaii are NW's A330 and PR's A340 service to MNL.
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3494 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 8568 times:
Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 4): Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
The first Airbus service was by LH in the early 1990's when they flew nonstop between FRA and HNL on A340-200s. We currently have PR and CI flying A340s and JQ and NW with A330s. AC also uses the A340 a couple months during the winter on their YVR-HNL-SYD flight. In the past we've had A330s from AC, EVA, and Canada 3000.
Quoting N770WD (Reply 17): The real problem is range and ETOPS 180
I would think the fuel reserves needed for ETOPS would be the limiting factor for B6's A320s.
WMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12 Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8428 times:
Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 4): Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be the first Airbus service to Hawaii?
Perhaps he ment first narrowbody airbus service to Hawaii.
Again to put this to rest, the answer is no, mark my words, you won't see us in Hawai'i anytime in the next 10 years.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 8345 times:
Quoting Kjet12 (Reply 22): Quoting Ha763 (Reply 20):
The first Airbus service was by LH in the early 1990's when they flew nonstop between FRA and HNL on A340-200s.
Does anyone have any more information about this flight? This is quite interesting.
Kjet12, I am not aware that LH ever served HNL. What is your source for this information in case I am missing something?
Kjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 975 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 8314 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): What is your source for this information in case I am missing something?
Ha763 in reply 20.
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25 Aloha73G: NWA cut its SFO route in the 90s and brought it back within the last 3-4 years. The prices quoted are the LOWEST fares on the route...if the lowest f
26 Ha763: I would have to go to the library to research it more, but from my recollection, the first flight was in 1993. I remember watching the news and seein
27 Je89_w: Interesting! Never knew LH even flew here before, and never knew an airline had scheduled services with an A342.
28 Viscount724: Thanks for your information. I had forgotten about that brief LH service to HNL.
29 AvConsultant: That is very disappointing if he was bullshitting me. No discredit to you, FoxBravo, can someone clear this up?
30 Tbear815: Somewhere in a box in storage, I have a LH timetable and I distinctly remember service from FRA to HNL. I have the recollection that it was operated o
31 PlanenutzTB: Would love to see the A330 flying out of LGB. This is the only way B6 could fly LGB to HNL. But since I have read about no orders from B6 for 330's, t
32 LASOctoberB6: i thought they were ETOPS certified......
33 Bluewave 707: Then-Governor Ben Cayetano was trying to lure more tourists from Europe by working with LH to fly directly from FRA to HNL via the polar route. The fl
34 AS739X: He didn't go SFO-HNL flying an A320/19. No UA A32X are ETOPS ASLAX[Edited 2007-02-13 09:15:58]
35 KC135TopBoom: If B6 had any A-319s or B-737-700/800, they might consider HNL service from the left coast. It has the range and the required fuel reserve. The A-320
36 N1120A: Which explains why it is so heavily served Yes they can and do all the time. Off the 10,000 foot runways at LGB and OAK it would be even easier. Corr
37 Hpnonrev99: I couldn't help but pass this post up. The A320 family doesn't have the range to go to Hawaii. You can argue distance, and winds, endurance, tank capa
38 N1120A: Um, you are completely and totally wrong. You are kidding me, right? The A319 can get off of SNA and make it non-stop to IAD, and does so on a daily
39 WepaMan: FYI, There are better routes for JetBlue to explorer than the Hawaii island, with BWIA and Caribbean Sun out of the picture JetBlue can use their Flee
40 AirTran717: United has used 757's from HNL to SFO. Flown it. I realize the range of that plane is adequate, but I was referring to the comment about narrow bodie
41 Call911mfc: Flew last August to Hawaii on NWA MSP-HNL on an A330 and had to stop in PDX for fuel. Eastbound was on one of NWA's DC-10's. Nice flight and even thou
42 Bobnwa: I'm surprised that a A330 had to stop for fuel from MSP-HNL. Are you sure it didn't stop for some other reason, crew change, weather, pick up pax etc
43 Drewwright: I think you're missing the point here...when winds are blowing hard during the winter, the A319/20 may make it eastbound nonstop, but will have to re
44 AirportPlan: Aloha's 737-700s also fly from the mainland to Hawaii daily.
45 Drewwright: Of course...how could I forget that?
46 EXAAUADL: That is actually a good yield for Hawaii, many Hawaii-Mainland markets have yields in the 5 cent range
47 N1120A: You are wrong, particularly about the A319. The A319 has longer range than the 738, and that aircraft goes to Hawai'i every day. B6 were pretty much
48 MaverickM11: I don't think B6 has the right plane, or the right West Coast presence to compete effectively to Hawaii. Same goes for F9, since I know that's another
49 FL370: Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 11): No. My old neighbor was a A-320 F/O for UA & used A-320's in the off season on SFO-HNL. It could have been an A-319.
50 Richierich: I agree. This is why B6 will not be flying to HNL or anywhere else in the Aloha State anytime soon. This topic comes up quite often, actually, and it
51 Highflier92660: Whew, I'm glad you said it and not me! The A320 is a great little plane but as of now B6 is playing all kinds of games on a few routes just to fly it
52 DC8FanJet: While the 319 and possibly the 320's with load limits have the range, No UA Airbus's are etops certified. Having the range and having the certificatio
53 PropilotJW: Yes, we will open HNL when we recieve our A330's. No HNL service is in the plans right now. As always, plans are subject to change.
54 Richierich: From all that I hear, it is a rare event, and certainly not something that happens as often as people will let you believe on this site. Additionally
55 AADC10: No, Hawaii is low yield. There are not very many published rock bottom fares but there are low end charters which take the very low end. Bulk seats a
56 WesternA318: Doesn't JetStar fly their 332's to HNL? LOL, "Folks we'll be landing in SLC to top off our tanks, due to unforseen weather occurrences in the LGB are
57 N1120A: Yes they can fly that far, but no they haven't. They fly A321s to LAX Which usually hit a better rate for the airlines than individual passenger sale
58 Viscount724: And WestJet 737-700s YVR-HNL daily, and Air Pacific 737-800s YVR-HNL-NAN twice a week.
59 B6FA4ever: i doubt that you were on an A330. spotters in HNL would've been all over that here on A.net since the A330 wasn't to make its debut to HNL till Jan.
60 ADiZzy: People make such a big deal about the stopping for fuel on the way to the west coast. You know i would rather them make the stop and have enough fuel
61 Richierich: I've heard a lot of inflammatory responses as to why the tech stops are bad. Such as "if they advertise a non-stop flight, then I should get one!", e
62 747400sp: I think NW replace their DC10 flight from Detroit to Hawaii with A330's.
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) quite regularly down to SYD, before this was converted to the 763, also my roommate has taken a 333 on AC 43/44 though this might not have been regular.
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