NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5151 posts, RR: 49 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8631 times:
Last thig we all heard was that they're still evaluating the proposals, that they would not make an annoucement at the Asian Aerospace Show as been rumored. Currently, there is no timing as far as I know for a final decision annoucement. Stay tuned!!!
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8621 times:
777LR, 787, More A380s and some A380Fs.
This is my guess.
[Edited 2006-03-03 15:50:56]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
Link or source please? I have a feeling this will be another QF anticipation-like order. Nobody had any idea..except some guy with the username 'pope'.
AA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3346 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
If I ventured a guess I'd say 772LR and 773ER plus some more A380 (pax). I think the 787/A350 competition will be delayed yet again. I'm unsure whether we could see SQ become a launch customer for the 748 (pax). Essentially SQ's fleet could be 787/A350, 777, A380 which allows for 3 types but many subfleets, so commonality is excellent but all the different mission needs are filled by the different variants. For this reason I give the 787 the edge with the -3, 8, 9 and proposed 10X.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21026 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8370 times:
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8302 times:
Timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1238 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8268 times:
i'm not so sure. they have a huge fleet of T7s, and all indications point to getting more. wouldn't it be cheaper in the long-run to have the -LRs replace the relatively small number of A345s??
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8235 times:
Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 7): i'm not so sure. they have a huge fleet of T7s, and all indications point to getting more. wouldn't it be cheaper in the long-run to have the -LRs replace the relatively small number of A345s??
Not if they can't find anyone to take the A345's at a good price. The aircraft has gotten plenty of bad press about its relative fuel consumption to the 777.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
Timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1238 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8196 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8): Not if they can't find anyone to take the A345's at a good price
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8196 times:
Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 7): wouldn't it be cheaper in the long-run to have the -LRs replace the relatively small number of A345s??
..and their A345's are relatively new. Maybe Boeing will buy 'em from them for the right price but who knows. All I know is that A and B will take anybody to bed (except each other) to take SQ's order.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8179 times:
This is my personal guess in relation to the SQ fleet order.
They will be keeping their A340-500 and will place an order for a further 5. By doing this they will be come the launch customer for the A340-500E. The A340-500 will be taken back by Airbus once the A345E are delivered.
They might order some A330 as a stop gap measure until the A350/B787 arrive.
The A350/B787 still to close to tell. Boeing should be in the lead.
Place aditional orders for the B777-300ER and posibly the B747-8F.
Conversion of all their A380 options into firm + new options.
Timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1238 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8179 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 10): All I know is that A and B will take anybody to bed (except each other) to take SQ's order.
lol! very very true. along with qantas and BA, SQ are one airline that both manufactures would dearly love to have in their pockets. im getting impatient to find out who SQ have chosen though! i guess its a testament to the quality of both manufacturer's products that SQ seem to be having such a hard time deciding!
Travelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8179 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 11): They will be keeping their A340-500 and will place an order for a further 5. By doing this they will be come the launch customer for the A340-500E. The A340-500 will be taken back by Airbus once the A345E are delivered.
What is the A340-500E? I've never seen anything about this before.
Personally I think they'll pull an AC and replace their A345s with 777LRs, but we'll see.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8131 times:
Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 12): i guess its a testament to the quality of both manufacturer's products that SQ seem to be having such a hard time deciding!
Maybe have already decided but they're playin the 'We haven't decided game' to get more discounts by still showing interest in both manufacturer's product.
Quoting Travelin man (Reply 13): What is the A340-500E? I've never seen anything about this before.
It's an A345 on steroids {biggrin]. I don't have much info on it but it's pretty much a more efficient A340-500. It took to the skies for the first time about 4 months ago (I stand to be corrected)
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8085 times:
I don't think it is Boeing's interest to take the A345s. They could be harder to place than the A343s.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 11): They will be keeping their A340-500 and will place an order for a further 5. By doing this they will be come the launch customer for the A340-500E. The A340-500 will be taken back by Airbus once the A345E are delivered.
That's a long time from now. I doubt the A345E will be compelling for SQ anyway, not unless they have a need for service to S America.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
EGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 503 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7981 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 14): Quoting Travelin man (Reply 13):
What is the A340-500E? I've never seen anything about this before.
It's an A345 on steroids {biggrin]. I don't have much info on it but it's pretty much a more efficient A340-500. It took to the skies for the first time about 4 months ago (I stand to be corrected)
The A340-500E is a further development of the A340-500. It, and the A340-600E, are planned to use the new A350 cockpit and nose section, have a re-shaped rear fuselage, make extensive use of aluminium lithium alloy in the structure and use new more efficient engines developed from those engines that will power the 787 and A350. Link to Flight International story
The new A340 that recently took to the skies was the A340-600HGW. The first one (msn 715) is due for delivery to Qatar Airways this year. Qatar Airways are also said to be evaluating the A340-600E link
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1703 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7981 times:
My guess:
787-10 (launch customer -777-200ER replacement)
777-200LRs (and sell A345s to EK)
747-8F (they said they want it)
They will play with Airbus to get probably a deal comparable to what QF got on their last purchase. This, along with EK rumoured 787-10 order, will be the one that will finally convince Boeing to bury 777-200ER unfortunately...
...look for Continental and BA to order 787-10s next once it's launched as their 777-200ER replacements... with a whole bunch of others following in their footsteps... and say hello to 777-200BCF program in 10 years or so....
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7965 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 14):
It's an A345 on steroids {biggrin]. I don't have much info on it but it's pretty much a more efficient A340-500. It took to the skies for the first time about 4 months ago (I stand to be corrected)
Hi TinkerBelle,
The A340-600HGW was the plane that took to the skies in November 2005. The A340-500/600E is a further development of the A340 family incorporating improved wing, A350 style fuselage and new engines. If launched it should not arrive before 2010. In the mean time the A340-500HGW should fill as a stop gap measure.
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15):
That's a long time from now. I doubt the A345E will be compelling for SQ anyway, not unless they have a need for service to S America.
Actually no. From the early figures that have poped up even the A340-600E should match and even exceed the range of the B777-200LR. Ill eve go so far as saying that the A340-500E should manage to do SYD-LON non stop with no penalties.
Timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1238 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7965 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15): I don't think it is Boeing's interest to take the A345s. They could be harder to place than the A343s.
that is v true. though im sure EK would take them?? i was only being half-serious, though id love to see an SQ -200LR!!
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7913 times:
I would think 787/A350, 777-200LR (which is VERY obvious), and maybe 747-8F or 747-8I. I really don't see anyone ordering the A380 until it enters service. At this point, no airline knows if the A380 is a bad aircraft or a good aircraft. Once it enteres service, airlines will be able to tell, and then they will order. Kind of like the 777-300ER situation.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7884 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 19): Actually no. From the early figures that have poped up even the A340-600E should match and even exceed the range of the B777-200LR. Ill eve go so far as saying that the A340-500E should manage to do SYD-LON non stop with no penalties.
But that range is only needed for SQ to go to South America. SYD-LON nonstop is not in the cards for SQ.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
QFA001 From Australia, joined May 2000, 673 posts, RR: 54 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7839 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 19): Actually no. From the early figures that have poped up even the A340-600E should match and even exceed the range of the B777-200LR.
Where on earth did you get that idea?
The proposed -600E is an 8,500-8,600nm machine; not 9,400nm.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 19): Ill eve go so far as saying that the A340-500E should manage to do SYD-LON non stop with no penalties.
Alas, it doesn't quite make it. It still needs a few hundred more nautical miles.
If Airbus throws even more dollars into the A340 then they might be able to do what you said. Right now that's not the case.
QFA001
25 Zvezda: The A340-500 deal that SQ are considering is to sell the 5 they have back to Airbus and then take 10 (including the current 5) on a 5 year lease. Tha
26 FCKC: Concerning the A350/787 competition , they said before the Asian Air Show , they are not satisfied with both propositions of both manufacturers. The A
27 Tifoso: The arrangement as rumored is that Airbus buys SQ's 5 A345s, and leases them 10. While the theory that you propose above looks good on paper, I don't
28 Keesje: I suggested earlier - 20 A333´s for regional services - reconfigure all 772ER for long haul - reconfigure / introduced AC A345´s quick & pragmatic i
29 Stitch: Would Airbus launch the A340-500E with only ten orders, and all of them leased direct from Airbus themselves for only a five year term? I think the li
30 Hamlet69: IMO, you're spot on there. SQ has continuously dragged their feet on this one, and unless they feel that 787 slots are getting too valuable to wait,
31 BoeingFever777: Thought EK was looking to be that? Also why would SQ order or fill any A380 options when like QF were so disgusted with Airbus and a 6 month delay. N
32 Zeke: I had a chance to speak to one of the senior pilots over christmas/new year this talk then was going to be announced at asian aerospace. They have be
33 TinkerBelle: They may have been disgusted but that doesn't make the Whalejet any less of a plane. They probably are in love with it but going public with their di
34 Ikramerica: Can't SQ use the 345s they have to LAX and SFO and refit them with 3 classes in the process, and add 772LRs to serve NYC in three classes (1 JFK, 1 EW
35 Anxebla: SIA already had in fleet the 310's. It could be not so improbable: If Airbus offers a very good deal, with the soonest delivery dates and a more than
36 9V-SVC: My guess will be SQ going for a Boeing order this time round and I hope they do. 20 Boeing 787 (Replacing the older 772s ) 10 Boeing 747-8 (Mix Pax an
37 Antares: The decision according to analysts in Singapore is probably two to three months away. SQ can't get sufficient 787s to get excited about before around
38 9V-SVA: A330? Not likely, considering SQ could have bought the A330 10 years ago! A350 seems unlikely now, after the snub by Airbus on the A380's arrival for
39 Ikramerica: Considering your inside information on any pending orders is always pro-airbus or putting them "back in contention" and airlines not liking what they
40 MarcoT: So this goes also for all the people that continues to call the A380 the WhaleJet, despite their protest of it being just an innocent nickname, or no
41 BestWestern: Do you really think this "snub" will make such a difference to a multi billion order?
42 BestWestern: Personally, I see Antares thread as one of few balanced posts on this thread. You dont need to get aggressive if you don't agree. Threads of the qual
43 WINGS: I must admit that I was overwhelmed the number of replies to my last post. Just so we can some things straight I provide the following information as
44 Zvezda: In the case of a long-term lease, there is not so much difference. A 5 year lease, however, is an entirely different level of commitment.
45 DfwRevolution: SQ could easily secure 787-8 deliveries in 2.5 years and -3 deliveries in 4 years. The 787 is creeping up on us very quickly, the allure of interim f
46 GEnxPower: A340 Four holers with GEnx? Wow. It does seem a little overpowerd. GE would probably need to redesign a whole new derivative, like we did for 747-8 w
47 BestWestern: Very true. Hence the rumours of the 767 line closure, and the A33F design.
48 Tifoso: The EWR-SIN has certainly exceeded SQ's expectations in terms of daily loads. However, the aircraft has been unable to match the mission specificatio
49 Stitch: Do these facilities impact physical (space) cargo capacity? One of the benefits Boeing touts for their crew rest modules on the 772LR/773ER and their
50 Boeing767-300: Could be in service in 2011 only five years from now. Who is going to wait 5 years for an aircraft that may be as good or possibly better than 77W. P
51 Zvezda: I agree. I don't believe Airbus can improve the A340's efficiency by the 21-22% needed just to match the B777. Especially now that RR have committed
52 Antares: Stitch, I don't know the answer to your question. Very little seems to have been said about cargo and the A380 as a passenger jet perhaps because it m
53 EGNR: It has already happened. MSN 775 is the first A340-500HGW and is destined for Thai International Airways.
54 Kaitak744: So Thai will have 3 A340-500s and 1 A340-500HGW? Thats seems rather odd.
55 EGNR: I think the HGW became the production standard after the first 3 Thai A340-500s, meaning the fourth has to be a HGW.
56 Stitch: I am guessing that just as all A340-600s now being built are A346HGWs (correct?), all A340-500s are being built to A345HGW spec.
57 Tifoso: The 772LR entered service sometime last week with PIA. What you say may be true, but it is quite different from what I've repeatedly read here on the
58 Antares: Tifoso, The simplest explanations are usually correct. SQ cancelled the options because it didn't need them. However the world continues to rotate, an
59 Boeing767-300: I would disagree with you here. The biggest factor here is EIS for additional A/C. Boeing have the technically superior performing aircraft in 777LR
60 Hamlet69: . . . and were looking for it's replacement. And three seperate times they decided the A330 did not fill that role in the way they wanted. If SQ were
61 Kaitak744: Well, if I was SQ right now, based on reading this thread, I would be convinced to go with the 777-200LR. The 777-200LR is highly suited for SQ's need
62 Tigerotor77W: Hamlet, having "stalked" this board for over a year now, I've been consistently impressed with your professionalism. You'll be the first to join my R
63 Stitch: The A345 evidently "does the job", even if the 772LR could do it better. So SQ may feel the costs of adding another "niche" fleet of planes might be
64 Jacobin777: while in theory you may be correct, right now it isn't known what the possibility is for the next-generation ULR's....if its even possible........ th
65 TinkerBelle: Price maybe. I hear the 772LR is the most expensive aircraft out there.
66 Atmx2000: It might be more expensive that A345, but it certainly isn't the most expensive plane out there.
67 TinkerBelle: You're right, I think the 773ER is. I doubt anybody pays full price anyways.
68 Solnabo: I´m still waiting for this huge -LR order from SQ!! Could it be possible that SQ are pleased with A345? God forbid.... My guess is 773ERs and 787s fo
69 TinkerBelle: Have you even read this thread? I know you said *joke* but I'm still curious.
70 Astuteman: Which of course doesn't stop it from being true. I repeatedly read this on the forum too. Doesn't neccesarily make this true either. And if the A345
71 Atmx2000: Money doesn't grow on trees, even for SQ. They sunk money into A345s and have to figure out what to do with them, whether that is to keep running the
72 Zvezda: No, SQ do not operate any B777-300ERs, though they have 19 of them on firm order with deliveries scheduled to start Q3 2006.
73 Dalecary: Late this month is what I have heard but your timeline is entirely possible. I all honesty, I think there is very little chance they will stick with
74 Tifoso: I wonder if this could influence SQ's decision. EK will most likely expand more into the US market with their 772LRs, and will have their awesome F c
76 Intothinair: HUH, why were they unable to install F class on their A345??? this is weird?anyone know? cheers, Konstantin G.
77 Timboflier215: i think the general consensus is that the -200LR is a better plane than the A345. however, as has been stated in this thread before, SQ wont bite unle
78 Atmx2000: Too much weight for the payload restricted SIN-NYC route.
79 OyKIE: According to Aviation Week the decision will be later this month.
80 Nitrohelper: What is the seating on the -200LR vs. what the 345s have now? Do they need to care about cargo on these routes? Will not more "high-end" seat revenue
81 Jacobin777: well..I do know that along with PK's pilots, there was an SQ pilot on board during the -200LR's "longest flight in the world test".....I wonder if th
82 Ikramerica: Which is why they can keep the 345s and run them on the shorter LAX run, add F to them and turn them back into a 250 seat aircraft, then use 772LRs t
83 RayChuang: I think the most likely chance will be SQ doing the following: 1. Buy the 777-200LR to replace the A340-500. SQ will buy as many as 10 planes, mostly
84 Stitch: I'm quite confident it is possible, but I do agree that how soon Boeing or Airbus could do it is up in the air. Both have existing ULR models that th
85 Timboflier215: hence why i think SQ need the -200LR. its business and first pax where the profits are. and if they cant have them on the 345, other airlines will ta
86 OldAeroGuy: Well, Amsterdam does put a whole new meaning to the term "window shopping".
87 Antares: The layout SQ is said to be contemplating for the 777-200LR is 202 seats, including 12 super fabulous first class suites. The reason it may deploy all
88 Zvezda: Y3 will almost certainly be a twin and will almost certainly address modularity on a similar or higher scale as the JumboJet and the WhaleJet. The sa
89 Nitrohelper: Stitch,reply=84 Thanks for help, I'm a business seat traveler, but I have been forced to take first a time or two. The Boss said "bis,first ,or you do
90 Jacobin777: according to SQ, they are barely pushing 7000NM with full pax load, I doubt that they will be able to increase it another 1000 extra nm the plane is
91 Intothinair: Antares, i'm curious, do you have any facts if the F class demand of SQ is still declining? or if it is rising again, I know that european carriers su
92 Keesje: Negotiations with A and B on interim lift capasity until 787/a350 can be introduced are probably the reason for the delay in ordering these aircraft.
93 BestWestern: ATI have an article on this today. As this is a subscription service. I will only quote a tiny part of the article: When to expect order, and how big
94 WINGS: Where does the B787 fit in all of this? This has been expected. A good opportunity for Boeing to try and place an B747-8 passenger order. Also a good
95 Astuteman: I can quite understand this if you'd said full PAY load (i.e. full pax and full cargo). IIRC LH are making plans contingent on the FULL PAYLOAD range
96 Tifoso: 783 for services in Asia, and 788/789 for thin medium and long-haul routes.
97 WINGS: I was referring to Bestwestern's post as it did not mention the B787. Regards, Wings
98 Stitch: But does SQ really need a smaller plane right now? I know they don't like to keep planes for extended periods, and some of their earliest 772ERs are
99 Keesje: Smaller? Regional services are flown by 772 right now. Holding out for 5 years and being simply overun by Chinese, Indian and Emirates airlines? Few/
100 Timboflier215: i think airbus and boeing will go to great lengths - if either of them secure the entirety of the order out-right (ie 787/777 and 747 or 350/380), it
101 Zeke: The true regional work is bieng done by the A319/320 fleet. Some of that is getting very tired.
102 Timboflier215: thats silk air, right? so not actually part of SQ. i would have thought if SQ put their srvice on regional flights, it would be a money spinner, and
103 BoeingBus: I agree. IMO, Singapore will announce orders for both Airbus and Boeing. Specifically the 787/777LR/A380 has an edge this time around. The A350 is no
104 Timboflier215: agreed. i think if SQ were to buy a plane in this league, the 787 would win. they have already had problems with the 380 delivery dates (granted, tho
105 NorCal: Either way they are going to have to wait 5 years for the 787-10 or the A350-900. If they go with the 787 it really doesn't make any sense to get A33
106 Zvezda: A smaller plane with low CASM such as the B787-8 would allow SQ to increase frequency on many routes from 3x/4x weekly to daily. That would drive yie
107 Timboflier215: exactly. and airlines are increasingly looking to decrease aircraft size, but increase frequency (see japan). SQ really needs to get moving on things
108 FlyingHippo: I belive SQ will hold it's place competing with the Chinese, Indian, as well as EK. They have been very competitive against the likes of CX, MH, JL f
109 Zvezda: I'm willing to bet that SQ are holding 2008 delivery slots for the B787. How many 2008 slots are not accounted for?
110 Jacobin777: I took it exactly from SQ's website, you can interpret it as you like......... maybe SQ weren't as thorough on their website as they should be......
111 Antares: Intothinair, Haven't been paying attention. We have a thing called Telstra in Australia that one way or another is going to improve or destroy the val
112 Stitch: I understand that, but unless I am misreading your posts, you're advocating SQ order A330s now and A350s later, correct? If that is indeed the case,
113 Ikramerica: There is no doubt that SQ will be able to secure a few 2008 slots and many 2009 slots of the 787 considering the type of customer they are. One can a
114 Zvezda: Are you expecting SQ to win rights to fly to Toronto? I'm talking about 2008-09.
115 Antares: Zvezda, No. "Maybe" is as high as I'd put it. Anything is possible. I don't think 'No' really exists in business in Singapore. One day, in a moment of
116 Zvezda: Yes, I agree, eventually some Canadian government will think clearly. The future lasts a long time. However, by that time, a future B787 derivative i
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