LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 18 Posted (3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4471 times:
I have been a loyal customer of El Al since 2004 and from 2005 I have been a Gold FF card holder. Currently, due to my work requirements, I fly from Tel Aviv to New York twice a month. I have chosen British Airways as my carrier of choice, despite El Al being a more convenient option for me and despite my will to support my national flag carrier.
In May 2008 I have decided to use FF points that I have earned. I have called El Al reservations center and booked a return flight from Tel Aviv to Johannesburg, South Africa. The reservation was for the following dates: October 2nd 2008, and until November 1st 2008. I was told that the ticket must be issued by July 8th 2008. On July 2nd, when I called El-Al's reservation center in order to perform the necessary ticketing, I was told, to my complete surprise, that my reservation had been canceled (!), because I did not ticket it! Fortunately enough, the reservation has been restored, and I have given my credit card number for charges and ticketing purposes.
A few days had gone by and I still had neither received my tickets, nor any other communication from El-Al.
I have called the reservation center again – to be told that the return leg of my flight on November 1st flight from Johannesburg, was canceled. Instead, I was suggested to fly back to Tel-Aviv on November 3rd. Reluctantly, and without being offered any form of compensation for additional costs following the change in flights and the consequent prolonged stay abroad, e.g. extra hotel nights and penalties for changing connecting flight, I have agreed to El-Al's suggestion. This change had cost me a few thousands dollars.
On August 30th, Just when I thought that the series of mishaps and misconducts described above was behind me, I randomly checked my flight status on El Al’s website, I had another unpleasant surprise: I have noticed that the flight on October 2nd ,which was the first leg of my journey, had been rescheduled from 7:10 AM to 9:00 AM. This change in flight departure time had profound consequences for my trip – not allowing me to arrive on time for my connecting flight – the last flight available on October 2nd from Johannesburg to my final destination. This change by El Al accomplished more than just causing a missed connection, namely putting at risk a 3 weeks journey, for which I paid a considerable sum of money. I have to be in my final destination(Windhoek) by dawn of October 3rd. Failure to arrive on time to Windhoek will result in missing the entire 3 weeks long journey, and loss of the sums paid for that trip.
I would like to emphasize that El-Al had not bothered to notify me about any of the changes described above, which all came to my knowledge through my own checks, and never by an El Al representative.
El Al is a registered carrier and yet succeeded to behave, as I elaborated heretofore, as a charter airline, changing and canceling flights repeatedly, without any prior or subsequent notice, hurting its loyal and supporting customers and patrons. The situation is even worse, since it undermines the entire meaning and purpose of the bonus points system for loyal customers, who are encouraged to book bonus flights as far in advance as possible; yet, apparently, cannot rely on the airline’s schedule for their travel arrangements. This is a paradox, reminiscent of Catch 22, at least. Moreover, I would also highlight that El-Al's service and attitude, in my case, comes into direct contradiction with norms established by the Israeli Consumers counsel, and various laws and court rulings. I am aware that an airline is entitled to make changes to its schedule, yet it is also its duty to compensate a customer that had been severely affected by such actions as described in this letter, or at least perform all attempts and efforts to seek feasible solutions for passengers who are affected by its actions. This is both an obligation, and a minimal standard of service, and even a clearer one when referring to a frequent flyer.
Since I was affected by El Al’s changes to my itinerary, I have started to fly with another carrier. Since April 2008 I have made 7 return trips from Tel Aviv to New York, and I expect this number to grow to 15 by the end of the year. I also work for a company that employs 300 employees, almost all are frequent flyers.
I ask you to help me to return to my flag carrier and support it, as well as to encourage my colleagues and friends, many of whom are Gold and Platinum card holders, to choose El Al as a carrier of their choice.
Never have I heard of such a case, that was not followed by airline’s best effort to satisfy the customer and doing all in its power to assure the customer’s safe and timely arrival to his destination.
I have contacted El Al’s customer relations on August 31st and despite the urgency have not received any clear answer, but rather was asked to wait for a telephone call, during which I was asked to wait for another one – for which I am still waiting. when I called again I stil was not given an adequate reponse.I was also not been able to receive from anyone of numerous El Al representatives with whom I have conversed, a telephone number of a representative with whom I can be in touch with, but rather left in the mercy of your junior employees.
I am now going to book a flight on my new regular carrier, a major European airline, with which I hold the highest tier card and book another flight. I am intending to return my gold card to El Al and never fly it again.
I advise those of you who consider flying El Al not to do so , if you desier a punctual service, good FF program and a decent service, not to mention all of the technical problems El Al has been experiencing lately and their poor financial status.
Rudy
P.S. please feel free to post/link/forward this post of mine.
LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 18 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4447 times:
A small clarification:
Since El Al does not fly on saturdays and jewish holidays (and the days prior to my flight are such days) they can't fly me a day or two earlier, and refuse to put me on another airline for that leg. They have also refused to compensate me on canceling the return leg.
EUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4243 times:
The worst of all is that probably nobody in El Al cares a monkeys about your claim -or the fact that they loose your business. I had a very bad experience with them not long ago which I posted on this forum -for those who remember (topic: not welcome on El Al), I have been very well treated by IB, in codeshare with El Al on the MAD-TLV route.
I suggest you go directly to the press. This is the only way you will get any attention.
So much for FF programs... at the end of the day you're just a figure.
AustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4175 times:
Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 3): Self made connection, that I had to make since LY did not agree to provide me that service for a bonus ticket.
Then I fear you will have a problem getting compensation for the missed connection at JNB. They will claim their job is getting you from TLV to JNB as stated on the ticket, which they will do, albeit 2 hrs later.
Of course I do agree with you that the non-information they provided to you is unacceptable.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4043 times:
Quoting EUROBUS (Reply 4): I suggest you go directly to the press. This is the only way you will get any attention.
Thanks , and I certainly will. I am taking this as a project now.
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 5): Then I fear you will have a problem getting compensation for the missed connection at JNB. They will claim their job is getting you from TLV to JNB as stated on the ticket, which they will do, albeit 2 hrs later.
Of course I do agree with you that the non-information they provided to you is unacceptable.
The main problem is that they have done this twice on the same ticket, and their reliabaility hsa become a serious issue. I have consulted my attorneys and will press charges, which under Israeli law should provide me full compensation.
I'll keep you posted on the progress, albeit a lengthy one ...
RedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3813 times:
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): I was told that the ticket must be issued by July 8th 2008. On July 2nd, when I called El-Al's reservation center in order to perform the necessary ticketing, I was told, to my complete surprise, that my reservation had been canceled (!), because I did not ticket it!
A very unfortunate event. I understand that this must have rattled the cage for you, and that you feel that you cannot trust El Al because of this. Why it happened is beyond me. Maybe the final date for ticketing should've been June 8, and not July 8, and the first ticketing agent made a mistake with the dates?
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): I have called the reservation center again – to be told that the return leg of my flight on November 1st flight from Johannesburg, was canceled. Instead, I was suggested to fly back to Tel-Aviv on November 3rd.
Another unfortunate event, but honestly, El Al is not the only airline which is cancelling flights in these turbulent days.
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): without being offered any form of compensation for additional costs following the change in flights and the consequent prolonged stay abroad, e.g. extra hotel nights and penalties for changing connecting flight, I have agreed to El-Al's suggestion. This change had cost me a few thousands dollars.
I don't know what the Israeli laws say about this, but under EU law, the airline is not under any obligation to compensate you as long as they inform you of the cancellation minimum two weeks before the flight. If your flight would've been on an EU airline, you would get exactly zero compensation.
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): I have noticed that the flight on October 2nd ,which was the first leg of my journey, had been rescheduled from 7:10 AM to 9:00 AM. This change in flight departure time had profound consequences for my trip – not allowing me to arrive on time for my connecting flight – the last flight available on October 2nd from Johannesburg to my final destination. This change by El Al accomplished more than just causing a missed connection, namely putting at risk a 3 weeks journey, for which I paid a considerable sum of money. I have to be in my final destination(Windhoek) by dawn of October 3rd. Failure to arrive on time to Windhoek will result in missing the entire 3 weeks long journey, and loss of the sums paid for that trip.
I'm puzzled that you, as a seasoned traveler, have booked a journey where the purpose of the three week trip is at risk because of a 1 hour and 50 minute delay. There are so many things that can happen to a flight which can cause the flight to be several hours late, such as:
1. A whole range of thousands of possible technical problems.
2. Crew problems.
3. Flight control problems.
4. A late incoming flight because of weather problems in Moscow.
5. Birdstrikes.
etc.
When I'm on important intercontinental business trips, I always add some extra hours, or even an extra day, to allow for such delays.
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): I am aware that an airline is entitled to make changes to its schedule, yet it is also its duty to compensate a customer that had been severely affected by such actions as described in this letter,
Once more, I don't know about Israeli law, but under EU law, an airline has no duty to compensate somebody when the changes are made so far in advance.
Quoting EUROBUS (Reply 4): I suggest you go directly to the press. This is the only way you will get any attention.
If the press should write about every single flight that's cancelled or changed departure time, we would get newspapers that would be very interesting for the average a.nutter, but not for Mr Smith.
Top 7 airlines by mileage: SU, KL, SK, UN, LY, AY, LH
LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3576 times:
RedChili,
While each of the single incidents, had it occurred without the other ones, I could have dealt with - making 3 serious problems with 1 reservation/ticket of a single FF member requires compensation on my scale of the company-consumer relations - be it an airline , hamburger joint or a car manufacturer. Failure to realize that has to result in loosing customers ,whatever the law is.
Q120 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3382 times:
I'm really shocked to hear this, I last flew EL AL back in April 08 and I must say I was impressed. I have been on almost all airlines that fly to Tel Aviv and was amazed at the quality and service that was offered to me on my trip with the carrier. Your story is disturbing and quite shocking to hear at the lack of communications between airline to customer. You have every right to be upset and I hope someone at EL AL hears you out. This is my field and management is my major. Lets just say .... If you were my customer, not a doubt in my mind you would get a phone call directly from the top, along with an apology.
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 4035 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1900 times:
I will pose this question: What percentage of El Al travellers are connecting to other El Al flights at TLV?
This airport does not strike me as a "hub" per se, but more of an O&D location.
It might be that the nature of El Al's business - which I imagine to be almost soley O&D to/from Israel - simply precludes logic from being applied. It might just a situation that they have no idea how to deal with.
I hate to suggest flying with a different carrier, but in the case of flying to locations other than Israel, it might be best to go with airlines that are better at connecting than El Al appears to be.
Sorry for your inconvenience - best of luck!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Mikebg From Israel, joined Jan 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1548 times:
Quoting BWI757 (Reply 10): I don't know a soul who's been able to redeem ANY mileage with them.
For the past three years we have sent most of our family to London from TLV on EL AL bonus tickets (award tickets). Last NOvember I flew to JFK with my wife in First: hers was a bonus ticket, mine was a business class (I class) upgraded with miles to First. No problem at all with either.
I also have my gripes with EL AL, but redeeming miles is not one of them.
EUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1183 times:
Quoting RedChili (Reply 7): Quoting EUROBUS (Reply 4):
I suggest you go directly to the press. This is the only way you will get any attention.
If the press should write about every single flight that's cancelled or changed departure time, we would get newspapers that would be very interesting for the average a.nutter, but not for Mr Smith.
The point is not to complain and jump up and down about how badly he was treated, but to report a clear statement explaining what is behind a customer loyalty program that is basically a cheat. Coming from a premium FF flyer, journalists tend to like getting their teeth into these leads because they create attention.
LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 903 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11): I will pose this question: What percentage of El Al travellers are connecting to other El Al flights at TLV?
I can safely assume that this number is less than 1%.
I however booked a TLV-JNB-TLV ticket, not connecting in TLV.
LY are used to the fact that their customers are often connect to other carriers at LY's destiantion, as the choice of LY's destinations is very limited.
TodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2551 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 798 times:
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): or at least perform all attempts and efforts to seek feasible solutions for passengers who are affected by its actions
Yes yes, sure, but not El Al... They just DON'T CARE.
And let me tell you: the more loyal you are to them, the more they will treat you like shit. And you know certainly what I mean.....
Quoting LY7E7 (Thread starter): I have contacted El Al’s customer relations on August 31st and despite the urgency have not received any clear answer, but rather was asked to wait for a telephone call, during which I was asked to wait for another one – for which I am still waiting.
You must have dialed a false number, because there's no "customer relations" at El Al....
I know the subject too well... I flew El Al on dozens of occasions between Switzerland and Israel since being a small child. And already then, I had a great passion for the airline and tried to get some marketing items, I mean anything with the El Al logo on it, be it airplane postcards, timetables or anything like that [...it's only later that I started to look for some more interesting things... ]. My experiences with El Al have been always terribly negative. I went several times to their "Marketing department" on the first floor of the El Al Building in Tel Aviv and was each time very badly received. When I went there once with my mother many many years ago, the employee at the "marketing" department told her agressively in Hebrew that she did not have the time nor the desire nor the energy to help her - "ein li zman, ein li ratson ve'ein li ko'akh laazor lakh". That's NOT the way a customer can be treated, whatever his demands......
I think you'll have to wait still a long time before receiving an answer; it's a policy at El Al not to answer any request, any complaint or any communication whatsoever. To illustrate the extent of the "We don't care" policy prevailing at El Al, I can tell you that no one in the airline bothered to answer to a message from Dan Reisinger, the graphic designer who had collaborated with El Al for over 40 years, creating their famous logo mixing Hebrew and Latin characters and the livery which decorated their airplanes for 3 decades; this element alone is enough to sum up El Al's attitude.
Regarding the schedule changes, it used to happen often in the 1980s and early 1990s. Sometimes we received a notification from the travel agent that the flight departure had been changed from 11am to 4:30pm for instance.
Once in the mid 1990s, my travel agent notified me 2 or 3 days before my flight that the plane would make a stopover in Marseilles and thus arrive later in TLV. This was a great surprise for a friend of mine who had bought her ticket directly from El Al and learned about the Marseilles stop when I told her, while boarding... El Al did not inform her about the change..... Thus, she was not able to advise those who came to pick her up at the airport....... One more example of El Al's behaviour, and there are many more.... In order to be complete, I have to add that now for many years this kind of schedule changes have not occured anymore, at least one positive note.....
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
CastropRauxel From Israel, joined Sep 2008, 317 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 768 times:
Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 14): LY are used to the fact that their customers are often connect to other carriers at LY's destiantion, as the choice of LY's destinations is very limited
...And exactly because of that, LY offer the "LY connect" product, which is all about getting their passengers to a long list of destinations which LY doesn't serve, after signing many agreements with other big airlines. such is the case with SA in JNB. LY could sell you the entire ticket, TLV-JNB-WDH and return, using SA regional flights, and then you could complain to them if because of their delay you missed the connection THEY have booked you. but a very basic rule says that any airline will not care if you decided to purchase the next flight on a different ticket. once you have 2 seperate tickets at hand, the responsibility is yours. not LY, not the agent, just yours.
Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 3): Self made connection, that I had to make since LY did not agree to provide me that service for a bonus ticket
Wrong again. as an LY partner, passengers can book tickets to any SA destinations with LY points, pure and simple.
I am sorry to burst the bubble, and I really have very few good things to say about LY (if any) - but passengers can not throw the blame over an airline for no reason - let alone running to the press.