....I was suggested to start a new one, because it apparently was off-topic, so here we go.
In his opening post Viv says (quote):
Quoting Viv (Thread starter): In view of all this, I have asked for my deleted shots to be reinstated on the site - and this has now been done.
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Now, don't get me wrong, I find it nice to see he finds it worth uploading again, but I just can not see how (WHY?!) his photos could have been reinstated just like that, with hit counters, comments and everything as it used to be.
Am I missing something here??? If I want my photos deleted, I expect them to be completely gone, and not just have the DM crew make them "invisible" and keep them on their servers...
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Can anyone shed light on that please? It's not exactly what a photographer would expect when asking for deletion of his photos.
Shoot away!
AirTeamImages - take the high road and others will follow
Chachu201 From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 803 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 984 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
OK Florian, let me have a go at explaining...
Every organisation, and most individuals, back up data in some form or another, and especially those specialised in providing electronic information. This guards against a range of possible incidents, such as theft of servers, or accidents.
We keep regular backups, as I have explained most individuals do. In these backups, we not only keep data of the photos, but all the data relating to these photos, including comments and hits. The main purpose of this is not to allow reinstating of content after a deletion request, but to protect you as photographers. Imagine the outcry if one of our servers spectacularly failed, or was stolen, and as a result thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of photos were lost from A.net forever.
The side effect of this is that we can call on these backups in situations such as Viv's, where they wish to reinstate their photos on the site without having to reupload.
Under the Terms of Use, photographers have the right to request that we stop distributing their content, and this is a request we willingly comply with by removing their photos from the database. However, what this is frequently misinterpreted as is that we erase any trace of their photos completely. To do this would simply be impractical.
The ToU state this:
If you want Airliners.net to stop using your User Photos, simply send us written notice or an email at support@airliners.net requesting us to stop distributing such materials, in which event we will stop using your User Photos within 14 days.
When your photos are removed from the database, we do not use them in any way, shape or form. They simply remain on backups as that, backups.
INNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3409 posts, RR: 60 Reply 2, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 970 times:
Gabe,
Thanks for your reply.
I am aware that back-ups have to be there and one would be quite stupid to do without, no question!
Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 1): The side effect of this is that we can call on these backups in situations such as Viv's, where they wish to reinstate their photos on the site without having to reupload.
Not wanting to offend him or question his decision, however I think it's absolutely his fault. He wanted them deleted, he should start from scratch when thinking otherwise again, but anyway, Viv is not the point of this thread.
When I would request deletion, surely that is a very-well considered move, so to be honest, yes, I would not want to have any trace of my photos remaining here. No matter if it's the back-up servers, a DVD in Paolo's laptop or your USB stick because you like one shot especially well.
Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 1): However, what this is frequently misinterpreted as is that we erase any trace of their photos completely.
So basically every photographer uploading gave his 1024x680 pixel sized uploads to DM with absolutely no way to get them deleted from ALL back-up servers too?
Hey, lovely!
AirTeamImages - take the high road and others will follow
Walter2222 From Belgium, joined Sep 2005, 899 posts, RR: 22 Reply 3, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 1): To do this would simply be impractical.
It would indeed be very difficult to ask all visitors who have made a copy (and use it as wallpaper, or have it stored on their Hard Disks) to delete all traces...
PS: ...and even after deletion (e.g. from a memory card), a file can be brought back.
Chachu201 From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 803 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 904 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Quoting INNflight (Reply 2): So basically every photographer uploading gave his 1024x680 pixel sized uploads to DM with absolutely no way to get them deleted from ALL back-up servers too?
OK, just to clarify some points. This has been the policy of A.nets since Johan days, so this is not something new, and not a corporate conspiracy! I don't know how often we retain our backups, but I would assume that they are cleared out every so often. However, this is only an assumption, and I'll have to wait for word from Paulo as regards this.
Quoting INNflight (Reply 2): When I would request deletion, surely that is a very-well considered move, so to be honest, yes, I would not want to have any trace of my photos remaining here. No matter if it's the back-up servers, a DVD in Paolo's laptop or your USB stick because you like one shot especially well.
I'm sure this would be a well considered move the majority of the time, however quite a lot of the time we find that deletion requests can be triggered by events, such as the problematic introduction of the ToU, and as such are not well considered moves (no disrespect however to anyone who has done so).
PUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4123 posts, RR: 55 Reply 5, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 855 times:
I don't understand why its so hard to give a genuine answer HOW LONG copies are stored.
No matter if this was already in place when someone else owned the site.
Database backups are neccesary yes, but there is no sensible data involved which has to be stored because of legal reasons for more than half a year?
So a full database and disk backup every week and some incremental backups inbetween for sure would be enough for a photodatabase?
Diamond From United States, joined Apr 2004, 3122 posts, RR: 71 Reply 6, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 851 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
This topic cannot exist in two forums simultaneously. The duplicate thread in site-related has been locked.
Numerous posts have been removed from both threads due to rule violations. This thread is now re-opened as the place to discuss this subject. Please be mindful of the forum rules in order to prevent the deletion of this thread.
✈ It's like the difference between LAX and Burbank.
Eksath From United States, joined Aug 2004, 691 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 734 times:
Florian,
I agree with you. This is a topic that relates to all of us.
it should be DELETED=DELETED (no residual pictures lying around on some backup so that they can reappear and/or wonder off into the wrong hands or locations). Usually, when a person requests a photo deleted it needs to disappear from all a.net locations so that it cannot reappear. There are legal ramifications of this.e.g one may sell the photo with exclusive rights hence it needs to be deleted from other visible places etc.
However, in the modern digital world, once released to the web and someone else's computer means that your work can (will) live forvever even if you are unaware/incapable of access it.
Moo From Falkland Islands (Malvinas), joined May 2007, 2610 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 643 times:
As I said in the other thread before my post was removed due to housekeeping (reference post deleted), demanding complete deletion from all sources held is an unreasonable demand to make.
When you terminate your license for Demand Media to redistribute your photos, that is legally enough - if Demand Media were then to distribute after that point, they would be in violation of copyright law, and you can take them to court for damages (it would be a pretty open and shut case - you invoke the right to terminate the license to distribute, and they distributed).
What you do not have is the right to demand complete deletion from all places Demand Media holds your photos - they do not need a license from anyone under copyright law to hold copies, only distribute.
Demand Media is doing nothing wrong by holding a copy for however long they wish.
Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 5): Database backups are neccesary yes, but there is no sensible data involved which has to be stored because of legal reasons for more than half a year?
Backups should be held for as long as you can hold them - as a systems admin, you never know how far you need to go back, especially if there is undetected corruption ongoing.
I have backups of my websites going back a decade now, and theres no financial or legal reasons to hold those backups other than I don't know that I *don't* need them.
To those who say that photos should be deleted from backups, I say this: backups are inviolate, they are never to be changed, they are points in time. Mucking with them can create problems later on when you actually need to use that backup.
Quoting INNflight (Reply 2): yes, I would not want to have any trace of my photos remaining here. No matter if it's the back-up servers, a DVD in Paolo's laptop or your USB stick because you like one shot especially well.
As I said earlier, you don't have that right - copyright law only gives you the right to control distribution, you cannot prevent someone from holding a copy.
The protection over right to distribute granted to you under copyright law should be enough - there is no way you can prevent anyone from holding a copy, but under law you can prevent them from distributing - the law is very much on your side in that respect.
PUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4123 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 549 times:
If you want an answer how long backups are kept, mail the screeners. They know it. I got an answer but as it was in a private mail, I suppose i am not allowed to post it here because this would be violating forum rules.
Deeplight From United States, joined Apr 2007, 193 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 531 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW GENERAL MANAGER
Hello All
We are in the business of providing honesty and the highest quality of service to our community.
Bottom line is we won't display images after they're deleted. There is no big brother here.
A archival copy may or may not remain on a server somewhere for a short period of time and we don't have a policy of keeping deleted images but we also don't have a policy of searching and scrubbing every database the minute we are asked to delete someones photos.
So - yes, we have backup or cached copies that may exist and will get scrubbed ASAP. Btw...other websites do the same thing, they just don't tell their users.
When someone wants us to delete their photos we will do our best to remove them from our database ASAP.
Best Regards,
Paulo
KMB From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 508 times:
I have just had my own images restored to Anet and would like to clarify that when I withdrew from the site last November it was an amicable decision with DM and had nothing to do with the TOU issue. I was informed that my images had been archived and I could return to the site at a later date.
I would like to thank those responsible for restoring my images so promptly.
cheers
Kevin
Better to ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake
NIKV69 From United States, joined Jan 2004, 6746 posts, RR: 37 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 442 times:
I have a question that pertains to this. I was under the assumption that once a photog has decided to pull his pics if he wanted them back in the DB he had to start from scratch and upload them to be screened etc. Was this true? If so was the rule changed? Why?
Obama could have went to see wounded soldiers, he went to the gym instead. McCain, country first.
TimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3278 posts, RR: 64 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 406 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Those who had their images reinstated were in luck I suppose. So if anyone wants to come back better do it quickly Would be a pain to reupload all that stuff later...
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Would be a pain to reupload all that stuff later...
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