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Need Tips For Transatlantic Flight Planning In FS9  
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 15614 times:

So I just finished my Domestic and International navigation class, which was a lot of fun and extremely intersting. We even used the Level-D 767 to simulate an ETOPS diversion procedure in our class computers.

Anyways sad part is I won't really be using this stuff I learned until waaaay down the road, I'm just barely getting my commercial license this year so the day I get to fly a heavy across the pond is still ways out.

But I have FS9 and the Level-D 767 and am really fluent in both. Thing is, I don't know where to get my information for flightplanning (i.e. NAT tracks etc) for the day.In class we used actual flightplans from DL an UA which were provided to us, but I don't have access to them, and my instructor didn't really tell us where to find that info (since the airline dispatcher is gonna give it to us anyways).

So where can I find flight planning info for crossing the pond? Is there anywhere where I could find real-life flight plan print outs from airlines?

Using realistic sources would be of utmost importance to me.

Thx in advance  wave 

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15603 times:

You can find the flightplans from every IFR flight originating and arriving to/from the US at www.flightaware.com

Go to the statistics page on the left, then there is a link that lets you search for IFR plans between destinations

For the current NATs, go to https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/qryhtml/nat.html

Your CptSpeaking  wave 



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 1):
You can find the flightplans from every IFR flight originating and arriving to/from the US at www.flightaware.com

O duh I didnt think about that  banghead 


User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15483 times:

How would you go about programming this into FS9? It gives you an option to delete a waypoint, but how would you actually add one?

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineGAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 934 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15478 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 3):
How would you go about programming this into FS9? It gives you an option to delete a waypoint, but how would you actually add one?

Leo.

You create your flightplan (direct or using airways) using the FS9 flight planner and then you drag your route over the waypoint you want to include.
If there's more than one possibility around where you released the mouse button, there's a pop-up asking you which intersection/VOR/NDB etc. you want to select.



"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3391 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15476 times:

If you check the Level-D manual, you'll find a way to manually enter the coordinates you'll need to input to fly a North Atlantic Track, too.

User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15472 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 3):
How would you go about programming this into FS9? It gives you an option to delete a waypoint, but how would you actually add one?

It's kinda tricky and time-consuming to find all the waypoints with the default planner, but is possible as GAIsweetGAI has stated...not sure if it will do lat/longs though...

Most people who are interested in doing this kind of planning and accurate/realistic routings will have some of the accurate/realistic (or at least closer than the default) airplanes such as the Level D 763, PMDG 744, PSS 777, etc. All of these products allow you to enter Lat/Longs into the FMS as a waypoint, just as in the real thing...

Your CptSpeaking



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlinePMDGpilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15472 times:

The method I use for all my flights (NAT or not) is RouteFinder. http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/ This will give you a complete flight plan including waypoints and airways. To actually build the flight plan for FS and LDS (also works with PMDG) I use FSBuild. http://www.fsbuild.com/ It is payware though so if you want a free option, you can use FsRoute. http://fsroute.com/

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15436 times:

My flight planning tools consist of Flightaware, FSNavigator, one of the several websites with NAT tracks, and wind information from http://squall.sfsu.edu/crws/jetstream.html

I'll either use a flightaware plan verbatim, or if I'm flying a route that isn't flown, I'll pull the wind information, use it to pick a NAT track, and build the route around that in FSNavigator. FSNavigator allows you to save the route in FS format, so you'll be able to use the default ATC, and I enter it manually into the FMC.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJycarlisle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15431 times:

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 1):
You can find the flightplans from every IFR flight originating and arriving to/from the US at www.flightaware.com

This is what I use for my waypoints and such. I will be doing an upcoming flight AMS-JFK and find that site very helpful, however, I am having issues loading up information for any flights from Lisbon, Portugal to AMS. I have tried KL and TAP and nothing seems to be loading up for these two airlines. (Usually in this case, I make my own route, however, I really would like to use a more "authentic" route.

Cheers
Jeremy


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15402 times:

Quoting Jycarlisle (Reply 9):
I will be doing an upcoming flight AMS-JFK and find that site very helpful, however, I am having issues loading up information for any flights from Lisbon, Portugal to AMS.

Flightaware only shows you flights that are within the United States (plus flights that pass through US airspace without landing, such as LHR-MEX). LIS-AMS would not show up in Flightaware, and I know of no other website that gives the same kind of information.

Also, keep in mind that with most transatlantic flights that are coming westbound (from Europe), Flightaware will only give the first fix inside (or close to) US airspace, not the full route.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAC77W From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15393 times:

www.simroutes.com is a great website planning flights across the pond but they only have limited airports


"Brampton Unicom LRI Radio check" "LRI 5x5 runway 33"
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15388 times:

Using the flight planner in FS9 transatlantic routes do not work on airways. I have to use direct/gps to do it.


As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15384 times:

Very informative thx to all  Smile

User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15358 times:

Using NATS is of course good when flying from Europe to the US, but what with flying from Europe to Southamerica?
Is there any sort of "SATS"? what is done in those cases?

What about polar routes?



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineJycarlisle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15357 times:

Thanks for the information Mir and everyone!

Cheers
Jeremy Carlisle


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15345 times:

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 14):
Using NATS is of course good when flying from Europe to the US, but what with flying from Europe to Southamerica?
Is there any sort of "SATS"? what is done in those cases?

To my knowledge there are no South Atlantic Tracks, due to the much lower volume of traffic than the North Atlantic. I suspect planes just use lat/lon coordinates. Some US-Europe routes use those as well if their route of flight will take them outside the NAT track region (generally routes from the US west coast that go up to a higher latitude than those from the east coast): http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW278

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 14):
What about polar routes?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA99

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15288 times:

OK so here's an update:

At 10 May at 0730Z, I officially inaugurated my first transatlantic flight  Smile . I wanted something interesting, so I am attempting a MEX-CDG flight, since about half is over land and half over water. I used FSBuild to export the flightplan to my LDS767, and it worked like a charm. ETA @ CDG 1815Z

So now I'm gonna go to bed and let the ottopilot do the flying, hopefully ill still be in the air when I wake up in the morning.

By the way, anybody know where I can get free app charts for LHR? I just realized I kinda need those Big grin


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15256 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 17):
By the way, anybody know where I can get free app charts for LHR? I just realized I kinda need those

For going to CDG?  crazy 

Anyways, you'll be able to access LHR charts here: www.ais.org.uk

You'll need to register, which is free, then login, and then follow the following (way too complicated) path:

Publications -> UK AIP -> UK AIP Package -> UK IAIP -> UK AIP -> Aerodrome Data - Specific -> London Heathrow

Keep in mind that UK approach charts aren't the best.

If you're looking for CDG charts, go here: http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm

Click on AIP at the top left, then on the AIP link that appears. You'll get a collection of images of books. In the Metropolitan France category, approach charts will be found in IAC (along with a bunch of other stuff - click on the IAP in Force link that appears). SIDs and STARs will be in ARR/DEP (again, click on the ARR/DEP in Force link that appears). Thing is, there look to be STARs, transitions from the STARs to the approaches, and then the approaches. The latter two are in the IAC category. If you download both the ARR/DEP pages and IAC pages for CDG, you're looking at 126 pages of stuff. Have fun.

Unfortunately, DAFIF doesn't put out charts for Europe anymore.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 15242 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
For going to CDG?

Ooops my bad. It was 5am when I wrote that  tired 

But I am happy to report I woke up just when I reached TOD, and did self vectors to the airport Big grin

Thanks Mir for the links I'll check them out  Smile


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 15097 times:

I just made my first Transatlantic!
AFR422 CDG - BOG. Thanks.



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
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